[Jeneki]

Soon historical fans will get a taste of That Which Is Collectable.

http://www.wizards.c...cle/pr20050506a

Now, I realize there is a lot of negativety these days against collectable games. Most collectable games arbitrarily make their “rares” and “super rares” better than other figures to increase sales. To disprove this idea, and show how historically accurate a collectable WWII game can be, I now present the FIRST EVER BATTLE REPORT FOR COLLECTABLE WWII:

Allies army (1000 points):

Limited Edition Churchill, 490 points
Limited Edition Einstein, 500 points
10 stands of common infantry, 1 point each

The infantry are deployed in a wall in front of Churchill and Einstein, to act as a meat shield and take hits.

Axis army (1000 points):

10 Rare Elite Tiger Tanks, 100 points each

Axis Turn 1:

The Tiger tanks line up and use their “blitzkrieg” special ability (only available on the rare version) to run over the allied infantry, instantly killing them and putting the Tigers in position to fire on the heroes. They roll 9 out of 10 hits all on Churchill. Churchill rolls his special dodge save … and succeeds! He ignores all the hits!

Allies turn 1:

Chuchill charges the closet Tiger Tank and engages it in melee combat. He uses his “throw” special ability to pick up the Tiger and hurl it at the next closest one, destroying both of them. Next, Einstein uses his special ability (take a guess), destroying the rest of the Tiger Tanks. The allied forces are victorious!

[Erion]

Two things worry me about that

1. Limited.
2. Edition.

[Jeneki]

(uh, d00d, you realize that battle report was a joke, right? Limited edition wasn't actually mentioned anywhere in the article, it's just a common collectable game trait)

[SaintRigger]

Kinda makes me wanna slap on someone, I think :)


We'll see :) Can't be hatin' on it without getting to know if more first.

[Dragon Snack]

Quote

15mm scale, pre-painted plastic miniatures featuring varying degrees of rarity to enhance collectability.

*sigh*

Since I probably won't play the game itself, the 15mm thing will make them out of scale with my other stuff (if my group ever goes back to playing a modern era game).

Then there's the "varying degrees of rarity to enhance collectability" thing...

I do like Axis and Allies though.

[abngi]

Dragon Snack, on May 8 2005, 12:53 AM, said:

the 15mm thing will make them out of scale with my other stuff

Flames of War is 15mm, though, so the commons/uncommons could be a good way to set up starter or loaner forces. Sell the rares to finance the rest...assuming they follow the standard mix.

[Heisler]

Can someone explain this line to me?
"...Wizards’ role as a pacesetter in tactical miniatures combat games..."

I'm trying to figure out when this happened, how did I get behind, I don't have a single pacesetting tactical miniatures game from Wizards.

Oh wait this one confuses me too:

"...Axis & Allies is the gold standard in WWII games..."

Trying to figure out when glorified risk became the gold standard. Guess I should just toss my GDW and SPI games out now.

I think I need to see my therapist, if I had one.

[Lars Porsenna]

I think I'll pass. One of the best things about minis games -- especially historicals -- is that you stand around talking while playing the game. I love Battletech, and talk about the setting, lastest novels, etc, when playing. I've played Mechwarrior (competatively), and when I try to do the same, I get a blank look. Basically takes all the fun out of the game. I'm more than willing to bet the same thing will happen here...

Besides, how collectable can you make it??? "WOW! I got the super rare LE Michael Witmann Tiger! I'll trade it for your LE Otto Cairus Tiger..."

I wonder if the game will portray Waffen-SS, or if they'll buckle under and portray some sort of sanitized (and innaccurate) version of WWII? And if they do put out Waffen-SS, will they go cheeseball and paint them in black uniforms?

Damon, waiting to see hordes of Panzergrau Panthers flood Ebay...

[vejlin]

Ofcourse they'll portray waffen-SS wrong. Atleast in Europe they probably will, since germany is a HUGE market for games and they have some pretty messed up "let's just pretend all the bad stuff just never happened" laws, that prohibit showing most thing usually associated with the Nazi party and the holocaust.

[abngi]

As a wargame, the focus is on the battlefield. You can have a completely legit German army without the SS, and you can have the SS on the battlefield without addressing the non-battlefield stuff - without the mindset/politics, the SS are just troops.

[Chairman Aeon]

vejlin, on May 8 2005, 09:52 AM, said:

Ofcourse they'll portray waffen-SS wrong. Atleast in Europe they probably will, since germany is a HUGE market for games and they have some pretty messed up "let's just pretend all the bad stuff just never happened" laws, that prohibit showing most thing usually associated with the Nazi party and the holocaust.

The South will rise again. Enough swastikas and death camps are preserved to remind the German people of what happened during WW2.

I just think a CMG based on the Second World War is just increadibly tacky. It's Hasbro/AH/WotC just glossing over the facts and pushing plastic. Your grandfather died in Europe so Hasbro can sell you Chinese made 1/100 trinkets. God bless America!

Iain.

[abngi]

It's not glossing over facts - those facts are not in the scope of the game.

From what little information is available on the web, it seems to me that the game is not sociopolitical simulation - it is a wargame. That Avalon Hill will be using plastic figures instead of cardboard chits is great - I like the viual effect, and I like to use 3D miniatures on a 3D battlefield.

Now, if they were to give SS troops suppression rules for a multi-year campaign, or have scenarios where Wermacht troops would root out Jewish resistance units, then that would be tacky. However, for a basic battlefield without political elements, how does the time period make it tacky?

However, some of the paintjobs I've seen on pre-painted plastics...now THAT'S tacky.

[ecs05norway]

Quote

I think I'll pass. One of the best things about minis games -- especially historicals -- is that you stand around talking while playing the game. I love Battletech, and talk about the setting, lastest novels, etc, when playing. I've played Mechwarrior (competatively), and when I try to do the same, I get a blank look. Basically takes all the fun out of the game. I'm more than willing to bet the same thing will happen here...

I think that's more an artifact of the group you were playing with. My local folk are always willing to talk, even in the most competitive of games.

Personally, I plan to pick up a few packs just to see what's what, and if the system is decent... who knows?

[Lars Porsenna]

Since the game will probably have a mass market appeal, glossing over the facts or pretending they don't exist is a luxury the game will not have (nor should they indulge in that luxury if they did). If you're going to sell the game to kids, the kids should be exposed to the history too, since they don't get it from Hollywood, the schools, or other sources. But besides that, I don't believe in pulling punches in history education (of which this game will be a part of, intended or not). And yes, I would find it tacky if I heard some kids saying "I'll trade my oberststurmbannfueher Totenkopf figure for your elite scharffueherer Polizei figure!"

Really what disturbs me is the declining ethic of craftmanship in historicals (and minis gaming in general) such pre-painted stuff represents. In historical gaming, I hear often reccomendations to buy Corgis or te Dragon pre-painted vehicles rather than do it all yourself. The craftmanship aspect is one of the things that keeps me in minis gaming (i.e. if it wasn't there, I'd just build models and play D&D), and it saddens me when there seems to be an increasing number of people that don't want to be bothered.

Damon.

[Crusoe the Painter]

Back when TimeStream Games ( when they still existed ) was previewing their collectible WWII game Dog Tags, I wondered if they'd have Einsatzgruppe with +3 jew killing skills.

I mean on some levels, WWII was just another war. A lot of the Wehrmacht didn't like the SS. SS Fanboys creep me out though. Their main purpose ( Well, after being started as Hitler's personal body guard ) was to pretty much round up 'undesirables'. Sure, they fought in battles, but afterwards it was time to round up some Poles, or Russians, or Jews, and shoot them.