86 replies to this topic

[Adrift]

Good to know!

[dwarvenranger]

Yeah, you do have to watch the min/maxers, munchkins, number crunchers in Pathfinder. Of course that's been an issue through 3.0 and 3.5 and probably before as well. But that's the good thing about being the DM, you can always just say no.

[buglips*the*goblin]

Oh yes, it's always been an issue.

The unspoken thing in these discussions is that "role-playing" is a term that covers many different types of game. Some people just want to adventure for treasure and levels. Some want to live in a novel. Some want a mix. And some will always put their lowest stat in "useless" charisma.

But the next fighter I make I hope won't even technically qualify for the class. I'm gonna give him like a 7 or 8 strength and 18 charisma. He's not real good at fighting, but by the gods he's got a can-do attitude and just won't give up! A decent Wis/Int and he can be an inspiring natural leader who overcomes the odds, proves himself, and earns the undying loyalty of his soldiers nonetheless. We fight for Sir Arodath the Withered! The wizard? Nay, the withered!

I once played a Tiefling wizard/cleric and had to put a 6 somewhere. I put it in Con, expecting this to seriously hinder my survival chances. But it was the only one that made sense, since a neglected unwanted halfbreed probably isn't going to grow up in the best conditions. Eating dead mephits out of dumpsters in sigil and so forth.

I had a Paladin with a 7 Dex. His order had been infiltrated by the enemy and he'd been ambushed while at prayer. He escaped and became a rogue Paladin, trusting only in his god and conscience, striving to one day root out the evil and restore justice. But his wounds didn't heal properly, and he was left with a limp.


Sometimes it's what a character isn't good at that makes them interesting.

[klarg1]

Yeah, you do have to watch the min/maxers, munchkins, number crunchers in Pathfinder. Of course that's been an issue through 3.0 and 3.5 and probably before as well. But that's the good thing about being the DM, you can always just say no.

Very much this. Like a lot of option-rich systems, Pathfinder is what you make of it. If the GM and players are not on the same page, as far as min-maxing and power level goes, you will have problems. The system also tends to break down at extremely high level play, which sounds like what was described above. Neither WotC nor Paizo have ever really invested much time in making the system scale smoothly above level 20(ish).

That's not necessarily bad, as there is a lot of game play and fun from 1-20, but it's worth keeping it in mind. Enterprising players can surely make the system extend beyond that.

[buglips*the*goblin]

I've never reached 20. I've come to believe there's a 5% chance per level of dying in a wizard explosion. Buglips was the highest, got to 15 if I remember.

75% chance of wizard explosion.

And that's how he went out.

[Doug Sundseth]

Any interesting roleplaying system* is breakable. Pathfinder is better than most, since many classes can have compatible power levels if the players have similar styles of gaming. And if you have people who are interested in power playing with people who are both uninterested in power and offended when others are much more powerful, nearly any campaign will fail.

* Note that this is only important if you're interested in the system. It's entirely possible to have a great roleplaying experience with uninteresting (or nonexistent) systems.

[klarg1]

I've never reached 20. I've come to believe there's a 5% chance per level of dying in a wizard explosion. Buglips was the highest, got to 15 if I remember.

75% chance of wizard explosion.

And that's how he went out.

You should check out the Feng Shui RPG I mentioned earlier. Not only is it great fun, but you can make your supernatural creature (read: Goblin) immune to explosion damage, if you want to. Take that Wizards!

[Argentee]

In points based chargen systems such as Mutants & Masterminds I am notorious for not spending all my initial points. I make a character concept, and I stat out that concept. Occasionally GMs will insist on me spending all the points... Which is how my mouse-shapeshifter became an expert chef. Other times the GM will let me hold on to the points and apply them later, such as when my Steampunk teen scientist joined modern society and discovered electricity, dating, and government bureaucracy.

[buglips*the*goblin]

I remember discovering electric dating bureaucracy. Made a nice profile and then got an email that I hade to use a "real pic". Apparently eHarmony only exists for hoomans, and is no place for goblins. We don't exist to them.

[dwarvenranger]

I remember discovering electric dating bureaucracy. Made a nice profile and then got an email that I hade to use a "real pic". Apparently eHarmony only exists for hoomans, and is no place for goblins kender. We don't exist to them.

Fixed it for ya.

[buglips*the*goblin]

Battleships, 2.5 miles, dawn.

[Panzer_Engel]

In points based chargen systems such as Mutants & Masterminds I am notorious for not spending all my initial points. I make a character concept, and I stat out that concept. Occasionally GMs will insist on me spending all the points... Which is how my mouse-shapeshifter became an expert chef. Other times the GM will let me hold on to the points and apply them later, such as when my Steampunk teen scientist joined modern society and discovered electricity, dating, and government bureaucracy.

I have a tendency to cook up a number of charicter ideas that I think would be fun to play, then throw them at the GM. Who can pick whichever one would fit best in the coming campaign - Or not fit, in an interesting/vaguely constructive fashon. . . .

In terms of systems, I keep coming back to Call of Cthulhu - Or rather, the cut-down version of the Runequest rules it runs on. Unless you want your charicters to be super-human, at which point you might have problems, there's almost nothing you can't do with them.

[smokingwreckage]

There's nothing wrong with maximising a character's capabilities. There's a lot wrong with ruining everyone else's fun.

[buglips*the*goblin]

There's nothing wrong with maximising a character's capabilities. There's a lot wrong with ruining everyone else's fun.

This. And this is a plague that should be mercilessly crushed.

I've seen campaigns utterly ruined because two idiots got it into their mind to sabotage months of effort so they could make a throwaway Simpsons joke that wasn't even funny.

I decided after that business that my roleplaying efforts were too good and too valuable to be wasted that way, so it's "written into my contract" that if I sign up for a campaign there's none of this nonsense. I offer it as a choice: you can either have me in the game creating interesting characters with depth and story and feeding you all kinds of meaty things to work with - or you can have the slack-jawed yokel who can't create a character unless it's a copy of something he saw in a movie or read in a comic book.

Choose. But choose wisely - for as the true roleplayer will give your campaign eternal life, the false roleplayer will take it from you.

[Argentee]

There's nothing wrong with maximising a character's capabilities. There's a lot wrong with ruining everyone else's fun.

This. And this is a plague that should be mercilessly crushed.

I've seen campaigns utterly ruined because two idiots got it into their mind to sabotage months of effort so they could make a throwaway Simpsons joke that wasn't even funny.

I decided after that business that my roleplaying efforts were too good and too valuable to be wasted that way, so it's "written into my contract" that if I sign up for a campaign there's none of this nonsense. I offer it as a choice: you can either have me in the game creating interesting characters with depth and story and feeding you all kinds of meaty things to work with - or you can have the slack-jawed yokel who can't create a character unless it's a copy of something he saw in a movie or read in a comic book.

Choose. But choose wisely - for as the true roleplayer will give your campaign eternal life, the false roleplayer will take it from you.

This.

This is why I won't play with my husband's gaming group. There's also their accusation that I break games.

Guys, if there is a logical hole the size of a mac truck and I point it out, that's not breaking the game! If the module requires players to make a stupid mistake, it's a bad module!

And if you can't deal with a player who keeps her character in character and won't act like an idiot, then you're not much of a GM.