10 replies to this topic

[DirkDiggler69]

Just got the rulebook for it, and have to say it looks very promising. I can see some negatives as for one it's about impossible to become an uber character. In fact I think if your 50/50 with no modifies your pretty uber in this game.

I've run into a lot of people so far who have been turned off on it because unless the GM is carefull it can really abuse the players. IE One set of players told me how after reaching the next level the DM suddenly threw them up against something really nasty that pretty much killed half of them. The others were severely mauled. I mean severely because in this game limbs seem to go flying fairly regularly.

A lot may have to do with GM/DM's not being used to this type of system where the players are inherently weak. Even the "combat class" is fairly weak. Also due to the Insanity points, and corruption points by the time a player reaches a higher level he will auto-die unless he's been really smart/fortunate so far.

Currently I'm trying to come up with a really interesting campaing idea. Something that will draw them back into it.

[smokingwreckage]

Maybe you need to focus on the creeping dread. Step the campaign up gradually. Start with local politics, then follow on into a criminal underworld connected by mundane political corruption, let them sharpen their claws on mooks and ordinary tough guys, then follow that gradually into deeper intrigues involving Chaos. Let them know there won't be sanity/corruption checks until late campaign.

[Frankthedm]

Sci fi weaponry is supposed to deadly and 40K is supposed to one of the most dangerous settings in all of gaming. The characters have fate points to make it possible, NOT guaranteed, to make it through a campaign, Fate points are supposed to get lost occasionally, if not often. Treat combat like a last resort if you are not ambushing someone. Play it like D&D, especially modern versions that presume 'balanced encounters' are common, and you'll be needing bionic limbs and be running out of fate points fast. Oh and if your party relies on a psyker for offensive potential, there is a chance he will kill you all. The psychic powers are so strong because one day the psyker will roll "Unbound Dæmonhost" and SLAUGHTER the party.

DH characters are low on the totem pole of character power and the players have to be careful not to bite off more they can chew. If their mission was "Investigate Suspicious Activity", that means the party should first "report" the dæmon infested labyrinth they have discovered, not assume it is thier job to "clear" the dæmon infested labyrinth they have discovered. Sure, the party might have to do a good old kill everything in the dungeon scenario, but it is DANGEROUS to assume that will be the default.

And if the group WANTS a sci fi dungeon crawler, maybe one of the other 40K games might be more up their alley. While my group played some modestly dungeon crawly DH campaigns for many sessions, both campaigns had house rules to make healing better#, really good luck for the players*, a skilled healer, and a offence heavy psyker@.

#Each injury received medicæ separably.
*{Our GM rolled combat rolls in the open to prove how RIDICULOUSLY lucky we were.]
@ IIRC both campaigns ended with the Psyker going Unbound Dæmonhost.

Still it was good times using the DOOM board games tiles for the "dungeon crawls".

Edited by Frankthedm, 18 September 2012 - 03:19 AM.

[smokingwreckage]

Or alley, although the former can't be ruled out.

[DrakeSpirit]

I was fortunate enough to beta test one of the first modules (Fantasy Flight Games is all of a 10 minute drive from my house) and some of the things I took away from the system in general were this

1. If one of your friends decided to play a psyker, make him take point.
2. Sometimes the easiest way to hit your enemy is to aim at your ally that is in melee with it (we found out that at levels 1 and 2 you have a 10% and 5% better chance, respectively, if you aim at your ally, miss, then roll to see if you hit the baddie)
3. When they talk about a grimdark future, they arent kidding, all of our encounters, from receiving the missing, to interacting with the locals, was played out with an over arching sense of dread and futility.

To me all of those things made for a great game and I wish that we had continued on with the adventure (even though my character got a mutation and was "cleansed" by the other PCs. The game is not forgiving, and neither is combat, both are as brutal and ruthless as they setup the 40k universe to be.

Hope this helps a bit.

[ReaperWolf]

2. Sometimes the easiest way to hit your enemy is to aim at your ally that is in melee with it (we found out that at levels 1 and 2 you have a 10% and 5% better chance, respectively, if you aim at your ally, miss, then roll to see if you hit the baddie)

This is so metagamey, I can't believe your GM allowed no. 2 to occur.

I agree with many of the assessments. Lots of GMs new to DH or any of the family of WH40K rpgs are dazzled by the kewl factor of the universe. Take it slow, start off with simple threats and build SLOWLY. A single encounter with a foe can turn the PCs into mush in no time. Even weak foes can get in a lucky shot that maiming or killing a PC.

In terms of content I suggest sticking with the core rulebook for now and adding the various sourcebooks gradually if ever. As it stands now each sourcebook adds gear, psycher powers, and advancement options which quickly escalates the game. Resist the urge to inject the new kewl into your game until your comforable with the setting and you've given thought to how it's going to impact the game.

And no matter how much your players may whine, do yourself a favor, don't GM a high-level campaign using Ascension the Inquisitor level sourcebook. It turns your game into a little-god exercise which rarely satisfies and most GMs will struggle to keep himself entertained, much less the players.

>>ReaperWolf

[DrakeSpirit]

2. Sometimes the easiest way to hit your enemy is to aim at your ally that is in melee with it (we found out that at levels 1 and 2 you have a 10% and 5% better chance, respectively, if you aim at your ally, miss, then roll to see if you hit the baddie)

This is so metagamey, I can't believe your GM allowed no. 2 to occur.

Our GM was more amused than anything that we found the loophole, and let it slide for that session, our base to-hit was abysmal to begin with (if I remember correctly, I had one of the higher hit %, and I was around 30% to hit)

[Girot]

I will tell you that you have two ways of doing this: get your players to accept that their characters are disposable and let them start at a much higher level so they have fun while it lasts OR find creative ways to keep them alive when the nurgling hits the fan.

You are their Inquisitor.

You have unlimited resources. You can rebuild them. Stronger, faster, crunchier. You have the technology. If that doesn’t work just shoot them in the head and recruit (or in my case thaw out) a replacement.

Example #1: I had this Vostroyan Firstborn Guardsman who lost a leg during a session. It was obvious we weren’t going to survive if he couldn’t walk so our Tech Priest converted his Grenade Launcher into a peg leg. And I’ll be damned. He was, no stuff, a better shot using his leg!!

Example #2: I handed over the GM reigns to a buddy who wanted to try out Rouge Trader. We had a damn good time with that one but we only ever played it that once. Anyway a few weeks later we get around to DH again. My buddy Ben, normally the runt of the party, suddenly is a human meat grinder! He is just butchering everything he comes up against. After about an hour he’s like, “Oh crap. This isn’t my DH character…” He was using his Rouge Trader character by mistake. Nobody seemed to care so we ran with it and we got an effective Tank.

Healing: Rather than waste a PC for this I recommend either a servitor or a servo-skull to keep them alive long enough to get back to HQ. If they’re gonna be in the field for long periods of time send an NPC with them. If these STILL don’t keep them breathing and/or walking around then I’d recommend NOT using those damage fluff tables unless you’re dealing criticals.

The psychic powers are so strong because one day the psyker will roll "Unbound Dæmonhost" and SLAUGHTER the party.

I haven't had that happen yet but I did see a Tier 1 Psyker accidentilly summon a Daemonette at the beginning of our second session. Vitali, eat your heart out!

...it was good times using the DOOM board games tiles for the "dungeon crawls".

DAMN!! Why didn't I think of that years ago!! I usually just used our 40k table and the terrain we had for everything.

[Girot]

.... an over arching sense of dread and futility.

OMG I had flashbacks of Arkham Horror when I read this! Hahahahaaa.

[Girot]

Damn, I didn't realize how much I missed playing this until today.

[ReaperWolf]

I've run Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay since 1988 or '89 and I recently wrapped up a 3 year WFRP 2e campaign. DH and the other WH40K rpgs were born out of WFRP 2e. There are plenty of ways to improve the game but IMO there's one: replace random characteristic generation and replace it with a simple point buy. With all the choices of race, upbringing, and career rolling dice for your characteristics is a pain and you don't always get the character you want so GM's create elaborate roll and dispose and reroll mechanisms. Complete waste of time. I give players a set number of points for their characteristics, pluse whatever they get for taking Flaws, and they just spend 'em. I ranked Attributes according to their use in game. I then priced out the various races and backgrounds for an average number of points based upon an average dice roll. I then increased the number of points by 25% - 50% to account for the hero factor. It took a little work but players actually got the characters they wanted and no wasted time with rerolls or getting stuck with a worthless character. After all, an Inquisitor is highly unlikely to accept an Acolyte who can't pull his or her own weight.