17 replies to this topic

[Beowulfthehunter]

Wierd situation and I am curious if this has ever happened to you guys? I finished a model last night that I am simply to ashemed to show off. The model is from the slave auction set put out by Ral Partha. The paintjob was fine, but looking at the model now (a female nude halfling), there is no way I want to show it off. I am even refusing to sell it on ebay as I am fearful of the backlash.

Perhaps I am developing taste in my old age, but more and more that I look at it there are some models I want nothing to do with.

[Inarah]

I usually don't get as far as purchasing anything I find disturbing. There's plenty of happy stuff out there for me to paint.

[GreyHorde]

Certainly, that has happened to me. Mostly since my daughter arrived and I rediscovered my faith, and as I have matured. I painted a couple of items - purchased long before my 'growing up' - for practice and competition, but couldn't display them at home and eventually sold them on eBay. Even though I needed the money, I felt conflicted about selling them, so a couple of others went for a swim in Simple Green and ended up in the melt bucket. I still have some unpainted models that may never see the light of day, so they may be destined for melt or trade-in at Reaper Con, if I ever get there.

So, you're not alone in this. I'd say don't sweat it. Not every painted model has to be displayed for all the world to see, and if you change your mind on something due to maturity, changing tastes, etc., that's okay. If you want nothing to do with it after all, ditch it and paint something you like and can be proud of. Just my two cents.

[Dr.Bedlam]

No.

Not until I picked up Michael Brower's trio of zombies "Doctor, Nurse, and Patient" at ReaperCon.

I knew the zombie patient's gown was open in the back. That didn't bother me. Zombie butt, whoopty doo.

But... dangly zombie nads, now... and ... is that a butt rash? PLEASE tell me that's a butt rash...

[Bruunwald]

Personally, I consider maturing to be the ability to look at all kinds of art, even the disturbing, with consideration and curiosity as to what the artist was trying to achieve and without a false front of modesty or phony morality. I don't buy that "naked," for instance, means "immoral." Naked doesn't get anybody killed or take anything unnecessarily from someone.

Slavery is a difficult subject, and the individual must decide for himself if the verisimilitude of his world is important enough to him to include it in his story, scene, painting, whatever. But if it is worth it to the creator, then he needs to get good with the truth that the rest of us are only revealing something about ourselves by being weird about, not about him. Slavery is real, after all. Unfortunate and terrible. But real. And art can be used to reflect that.

As to the question at hand, have I ever painted something that disturbed me? Yes, and I consider that a good thing. It means I was doing my job. I was massively converting and painting the final boss for a tabletop Silent Hill game we were playing. My goal was to create something everybody at the table would consider loathsome and disturbing, on several levels. Not only did I succeed in disturbing them, but myself as well, which, being a very difficult matter to achieve, I am rather happy at having done.

[Shakandara]

I've never painted it, nor do I even own it, but I think Kingdom Death's "Wet Nurse" set is pretty disturbing all the way around. That being said, I agree with Bruunwald; art can be disturbing, and that's not necessarily bad.

~v

[Sanael]

I'm kinda with Bruunwald on this one. If a mini disturbs me, it's probably because it evokes a visceral reaction of some kind in me. In the specific example--of the infamous slave auction set-- above, I would certainly be aware of the distasteful nature of the subject material, but that is precisely why, as a DM, I would love to get my hands on the whole set. Imagine the immediate reactions of the players when the PCs walk into a market district and you reveal the centerpiece of this town's commerce. Talk about plot hooks! not to mention the noble and heroic deeds that may ensue. It would likely breed the sort of roleplaying that only a viscerally negative reaction can.

The disturbing can be simply distasteful, but I think it's important that, if done well, it be a springboard for discussion and growth. The nice thing about minis is that they pass through the hands of several artists and media--sculptor to painter to gamemaster/storyteller--which can each influence the "artistic" value of the piece. What you do with the mini will affect how disturbing it is to others.

(And, Shak, I was thinking of the Wet Nurse when I saw the title for this thread. She is crazy freaky in all the worst ways. Almost picked one up for the climax of my current campaign, but that boss monster went a different direction in the rewrites; so now I'm painting the 72mm Sophie! Go figure.)

[Shakandara]

Yeah, I'm a little torn about whether or not I'd own that figure, Sanael. On the one hand, I've taken my D&D campaign to some dark and twisted places in the past, in part because I allow my players to be pretty much whatever they want. It is not all goodness and light from the players in my game, but even the characters that have a darker side have their limitations, and there is nothing like disturbing, complex themes to unite them and drive a story forward. That figure could make for a very interesting plot line. But because it is so bizarre, I'd not see a use for it for anything else, at which point the price tag it carries makes it a little hard to justify purchasing it (and paying for someone to paint it too). So in the end, it is not that I find the figure too disturbing to own, but rather that because it is so bizarre that its usefulness as a game piece becomes limited, and therefore not a wise expenditure of my hobby dollars.

EDIT: Also, I should say that I do own a couple copies of the aforementioned slave auction set, and have no issue with it. I have used the miniatures from it for a slave market in my game, so it has served a gaming purpose. But I also purchased it in part because it was a limited edition set, and also because I am a Dennis Mize fan (he sculpted the models in that particular set). What makes the set great, at least from a gaming perspective, is that it does include a variety of races. The nudity was not a big deal; I'd be just as happy if all the models had been clothed or partially clothed. There have been a number of other slave/slaver models (in various states of dress) produced over the years by various companies, but none captured the diversity or the full diorama aspect like this set did.

~v

Edited by Shakandara, 06 July 2012 - 10:27 AM.

[Shogan]

There was a really interesting article about this in the last issue of Amazing Figure Finder. It was in the letter from the editor section. I highly recommend it. If I can find a copy I will post it later.

[Lars Porsenna]

I can honestly say I haven't painted a mini that is disturbing yet. I don't have issues with demonic imagery or nudity, but I think the end result for me is the context of the display, rather than the individual figures themselves. If the display had the slave auction by itself, or in the context of setting dressing and that's all, while I might question the gratuitous nature of the nudity, I don't think I would be bothered too much (slavery, while reprehensable, is not neccessarily being advocated here IMHO). If instead, the figures were posed next to a male about to unzip his pants, well... that'll be a very different situation.

Years ago in the 1/35 scale modeling world, a set of figures were released of concentration camp inmates from WWII, striped uniforms and all. A lot of people labelled these as tasteless. And I would agree -- if the context of the modeller was to use these in say cattle cars or near gas chambers. But on that note, I can also see positive ways to use the figures, such as perhaps a US GI assisting the now liberated camp inmates -- it would create a very uplifting scene.

I too thought of the "Wet Nurse" when I read this title. I'm a whole lot less disturbed by the figure itself, than I am of the implied rape of the female figures. But even then that is my interpretation, and I could see a "story" created in which rape is not a feature of that scene. Again, context is important.

Damon.

[captenglish]

I am not bothered by nudity or violence or demonic subjects per se, but I am bothered by these things being gratuitous. There was recently a discussion on one of the historical figure sites about the number of nude female figures being produced as historical subjects and in my opinion, if like in a movie, there is a reason for it (pin up, the sculptor is depicting something specific relevant to the subject, or it was inspired by an artwork), than fine. I also find the sheer number of large breasted fantasy subjects a bit tired (I have nothing against boobs, believe me!), but really not all fastasy painters are middleschool boys. Getting back to the original question, I have been trolling the net for figures to fill out the dio I am working on and was looking for a long OOP line of 54mm figures only to discover that the majority of figures included nekkid women which SWMBO would most likely object to, so I can't use those (even if I can find them) and a rape pairing (or however you want to term it), that I wont even try to track down, eventhough it is an historically accurate theme for my dio; which I am trying to keep PG 13 without white washing history.

Edit: BTW, I checked out the Kngdom Death site after reading about the wet nurse in this thread, and some of their stuff kinda disturbing, well done, but disturbng nonetheless

[joshuaslater]

The wet nurse is not the most disturbing miniature I've seen. You should see the BDSM stuff that's produced in Germany!!

[MiniCannuck]

Well said Bruunwald. I find that, as a society, North America is too fixated on sexualizing the body instead of realizing the natural beauty it possesses. It's too bad that we teach children with our laws and practices that it is okay to show violence on TV but that any sort of nipple will damn everyone to hell.

I don't mind nudity. I do find it a little frustrating when body proportions are so over exaggerated that you are in constant fear that your top heavy model will fall over (at least she will have something to land on).

As for the most disturbing thing I have painted might have been during the weathering class at ReaperCon this year. The class was fantastic and we were shown how to do realistic splatter of various substances, including blood. I proceeded to practice painting blood on a relatively harmless looking figure with a knife. By the end of the session, he was gore covered and the spatter and drips we as accurately portrayed as I possibly could. The problem was that my mind starting thinking about the story behind the paint job and how much psychotic rage must have went into the deed. It repulsed me to no end. What repulsed me further is when someone saw the mini in my paint kit and thought it was "cool".

I don't think extreme violence should every be described as "cool". I hope that they meant that they appreciated the effect as it portrayed an horrific event. Considering that they were wearing a rather gruesome t-shirt showing a person being blown up, I'm guessing they meant "cool".

[Mad Jack]

There's not a whole lot that really disturbs me (had a shrink call me a borderline sociopath once, lol), but I think I would paint a mini that disturbed me simply because it disturbed me...
I'd paint it in order to explore what disturbed me about it and why. (I rather enjoy poking my brain with a stick to see what makes me tick.) By understanding what you enjoy, what you dislike and what disturbs you, you come to better understand yourself.

That Wet Nurse thing was pretty interesting, and I think I'd enjoy painting it simply for the challenge of coming up with the story behind it (since the story behind a figure, i.e., it's context, is generally what influences/dictates my choice of colors/tones/overall visual atmosphere when painting it).

[Beowulfthehunter]

My issue with the mini that it looked to much like a kid, and I was like "that is sick!" The joke among my freinds was "you have morals?" Now there are a bunch of figures that I know I am not gonna enjoy painting, but so be it.