14 replies to this topic

[Captain jOE]

Just started a new miniature today. I've been told in multiple places to add a matte additive to glazes (like 5-10 drops). I tried this out today and it caused the paint to dry real frosty, almost white, and ruin what was under it. Now I tried this for the first time with some of the new Citidel paints. I don't know if this was the problem but I'm scared to experiement at this point.

Is this a bad pot? Wrong usage of the additive? Or just a bad mix of paint brand and additive?

[ixminis]

I've heard of using brush on sealer and flow improver, but not matte medium. That being said, matte medium needs ALOT ALOT ALOT of shaking to be evenly distributed and you need VERY LITTLE to get the matte effect accomplished.

It could be the new Citadel acting funny, but I can't speak to that.

Rgds,

[Bruunwald]

All acrylics should basically work together, regardless of the brand. I don't use the Reaper matte additive myself, but am a big fan of the Vallejo matte medium. 10 drops sounds really excessive to me, based on my experience with the Vallejo. But even then, it should eventually dry clear.

Two things jump to mind right away. First is, maybe somehow the matte isn't completely mixing with the rest of the glaze. That might cause it to trap moisture beneath, which could cause a frosting effect. Similar to how moisture can collect beneath sealant when you spray on a cold night.

Which brings me to the other thing, which is that perhaps the additive is just a bad pot, and has separated somehow, and won't mix properly.

If it's the latter, you just need a new pot. But first, I would test a bit of the matte additive by itself. Instead of mixing it in a glaze, paint a little of it over something you are not in love with. If you see the frost, you know it's the additive. If it eventually clears up, it's something in the mixing. In that case, you might cause the glaze to mix better by adding a little Jet Dry or other dishwasher additive, which will help the glaze be "wetter," aiding in mixing. If you do that, though, keep an eye that your glaze does not turn into a wash.

[Captain jOE]

Ok, I did some of what you guys suggested. And if appears to be a bad pot. Or the slightly humid weather is killing it. But if it's that weather dependent it's of no use to me.

I really shook up the pot. So long that it's unrealistic to use while painting. Still didn't help.

Oh well, it was just an experiment anyway. I seem to be able to get along just fine with flow improver and water for my glazes.

I'll just dump it out and use the pot for mixes.

[vutpakdi]

The matte additive isn't the same as matte medium.

In the MSP line, the matte sealer is the closest thing to matte medium if you want to add matte medium to a wash to help keep the wash from being so dilute that the pigment starts to fall out or to give the wash some adhesion to crevasses. I generally use Liquitex matte medium with equal parts of water for washes.

The matte additive is to make a glossy paint more matte, and you only need a very very small amount for it to work or things go frosty.

Ron

[GreyHorde]

If you mean "anti-shine additive" then it's neither the weather nor a bad bottle. Ron is right - it's definitely not matte medium. Using it like matte medium is doomed to fail. The '5 to 10 drops' you've read about is only for matte mediums like Liquitex, Winsor & Newton, maybe Vallejo, but not Reaper Master Series Anti-Shine Additive.

Anti-shine contains ingredients similar to those in Testor's Dull-cote or other finishing or 'varnish' sprays. It's just super-concentrated, made only to knock down the shine of certain paints that look a little too glossy when applied to a mini. Think of it this way - that little bottle is enough to make about 20 cans of Dull-cote (just guessing at that number, don't quote me on it). Putting 10 drops of Anti-shine in the paint for any part of a mini is like putting half a can of Dull-cote on it. Result: InstaFrost.

One drop in a puddle of paint and water should be enough, depending on the size of the puddle. On my wet palette, I work with very small puddles, just a couple of drops of paint and water, so one brushload of Anti-shine is often enough.

[Heisler]

The other cause of "frosting" is when the layer of paint you are applying it over is not completely dry. I usually wait 24 hours before I apply any kind of matte finish and I live in a high altitude dry climate.

[Captain jOE]

The matte additive isn't the same as matte medium.

In the MSP line, the matte sealer is the closest thing to matte medium if you want to add matte medium to a wash to help keep the wash from being so dilute that the pigment starts to fall out or to give the wash some adhesion to crevasses. I generally use Liquitex matte medium with equal parts of water for washes.

The matte additive is to make a glossy paint more matte, and you only need a very very small amount for it to work or things go frosty.

Ron

If you mean "anti-shine additive" then it's neither the weather nor a bad bottle. Ron is right - it's definitely not matte medium. Using it like matte medium is doomed to fail. The '5 to 10 drops' you've read about is only for matte mediums like Liquitex, Winsor & Newton, maybe Vallejo, but not Reaper Master Series Anti-Shine Additive.

Anti-shine contains ingredients similar to those in Testor's Dull-cote or other finishing or 'varnish' sprays. It's just super-concentrated, made only to knock down the shine of certain paints that look a little too glossy when applied to a mini. Think of it this way - that little bottle is enough to make about 20 cans of Dull-cote (just guessing at that number, don't quote me on it). Putting 10 drops of Anti-shine in the paint for any part of a mini is like putting half a can of Dull-cote on it. Result: InstaFrost.

One drop in a puddle of paint and water should be enough, depending on the size of the puddle. On my wet palette, I work with very small puddles, just a couple of drops of paint and water, so one brushload of Anti-shine is often enough.

This makes perfect sense. Thanks for clearing that up. That would definitly explain the results I got when I added it to the black that I used to paint the base. Worked quite well for what it was supposed to do.

[Bruunwald]

The matte additive isn't the same as matte medium.

In the MSP line, the matte sealer is the closest thing to matte medium if you want to add matte medium to a wash to help keep the wash from being so dilute that the pigment starts to fall out or to give the wash some adhesion to crevasses. I generally use Liquitex matte medium with equal parts of water for washes.

The matte additive is to make a glossy paint more matte, and you only need a very very small amount for it to work or things go frosty.

Ron

Well, don't know what to tell you. Vallejo sells both a matte sealer and a matte medium. The matte medium is the "additive" they make for adding (see that word?) to paint, mixes, etc, to control shine. Their matte sealer is - surprise - a sealer! One can't help but to see the perfect analogy there, but what do I know? My paint jobs look really good, so I must be doing something wrong.

[vutpakdi]

Well, don't know what to tell you. Vallejo sells both a matte sealer and a matte medium. The matte medium is the "additive" they make for adding (see that word?) to paint, mixes, etc, to control shine. Their matte sealer is - surprise - a sealer! One can't help but to see the perfect analogy there, but what do I know? My paint jobs look really good, so I must be doing something wrong.

Liquitex also has a matte sealer and a matte medium. While the matte medium does reduce the shine, its primary purpose is to dilute / extend paint.

The Reaper Matte Additive (formerly known as Anti Shine Additive) is designed to be added in small amounts to reduce shine, not to dilute.

Ron

[Wren]

Matting agents, including Dullcote and Reaper's anti-shine/matte additive work by having little particles in them that break up the way light hits the object, so it looks less shiny. Too many of those little particles becomes visible as frosting.

But this can be a useful property to keep in mind for other uses. I've used straight or lightly diluted anti-shine additive for frost effects.

[Captain jOE]

Cool, thanks for the tip :D.

[Lars Porsenna]

All acrylics should basically work together, regardless of the brand.

Well, err, no that is not entirely true. I used Tamiya flat base to "dull up" some old Reaper Pro-paints, and the alcohol solvent in it caused the Reaper paints to become a spongy mass. This also happened to me with the old Citadel (now Coat d'Arms) paint. Not all acrylics are intermixable...

Damon.

[vejlin]

Matting agents, including Dullcote and Reaper's anti-shine/matte additive work by having little particles in them that break up the way light hits the object, so it looks less shiny. Too many of those little particles becomes visible as frosting.

But this can be a useful property to keep in mind for other uses. I've used straight or lightly diluted anti-shine additive for frost effects.

This has me wondering if the matte additive could be used for the purposes of "scale effect", that is when painting small stuff, to simulate the effect that you are viewing the object from far away so the colors seem dulled.

[haldir]

All acrylics should basically work together, regardless of the brand.

Well, err, no that is not entirely true. I used Tamiya flat base to "dull up" some old Reaper Pro-paints, and the alcohol solvent in it caused the Reaper paints to become a spongy mass. This also happened to me with the old Citadel (now Coat d'Arms) paint. Not all acrylics are intermixable...

Damon.

Totally agree with the Tamiya. It's a different kind of beast that's for sure. Only way I've gotten it to thin out or cleaned was using their thinner (x23 or the big bottle) or denatured alcohol. Never with water, like you said just turns to goo when you use that.