16 replies to this topic

[72moonglum]

Hi guys,
curious questions. So when I started painting miniatures again, being that I never planned to do much with them other than look at them, I never put sealant on them. This went on for a number of years, but I finally got around to getting a chunk of Reaper paints, and started basing my miniatures, and at that point decided to put some sealant on them. So question number one is: Those miniatures that don't have sealant on them, will anything bad happen to them under the assumption that they're not bumped around or abused, but just sitting in a display case? I'm asking this because when I painted my last figures, a quartet of gnomes, two of the four I had already painted, and when I pulled out the two older ones from the case, they seemed to look a bit weathered. I'm assuming kind of that this is because the two older figures were painted a number of years ago, and my skills have improved, as well as with the fact that back then I wasn't utilizing any sort of magnification, so all those errors that I would have hapilly missed were blazing obvious as I donned my nerd goggles to observe them. But in any case this got me thinking about the lack of sealant. I dont' know if I want to schalack all my unsealed miniatures if I don't have to, but will anything bad happen to them as a result?

Question number two: As I look back at these two older figures, I note how much I've improved over the years. This is from five or six years of practice, better paints, magnification, et cetera. But I seem to recall thinking back then that what I was doing was pretty cool and was kind of oblivious to the fact that what I was doing wasn't that great. So now I know that I paint better than many years back, but at the same time, how delusional am I, or any painter for that matter, about my own skill level of painting? Not asking this in the sense that I want everybody's personal opinion on how well or poorly I paint, but just wondering about the sense of one's self evaluation of one's painting skills in general. In five more years, assuming I'm still alive and painting, I will probably go back and think what I recently did was garbage. So is it more about noticing improvement from the past or being content with what you're doing in the moment and always hoping to improve?
Just kind of wondering....

[chipchuck]

Glad you hear you're back to painting.

Here are my thoughts on what you've asked.

1. Nah, if they're gonna sit in a case and not be handled or such. You don't need sealer. Some of the other artists I've talked to mentioned they do not seal their competition minis. I wouldn't worry about it.

2. I thought the exact same thing. I remember years ago painting a DnD character that I thought was out of this world only to find it years later and think differently. For me, one way to self-rate is to enter the ReaperCon painting competition. The way they judge minis for level gives you an idea of where you're at. Plus, the after-action report you can get from the judges that personally rated your mini is invaluable. They can show you where you did well and tecniques you need to develop. Plus, you can always ask friends to be brutally honest with you. (As long as you can take their criticism constructivly).

Most important is that your simply doing it. You're painting and every mini is practice in some form or fashion. DaVinci didn't paint the Mona Lisa first. For proof of that, have the ReaperCon artists show your their first minis. You'll see we all start on about the same page. :)

Keep slingin' paint and licking brushes!
Chip

[themudhead]

1. I made the mistake of sealing a competition model once and failed to even get an honorable mention because all the nice detail got smoothed over by the sealant and I didn't want to go back in and redo all that work. Since then, I don't seal anything, not even my game pieces. I used to be very worried a mini would get dinged in a game or on a shelf but now it is more fun to touch up a mini with new paint. It is now just an excuse to paint some more.

2. I think your question answers itself. It is more about personal improvement than anything else. All art is subjective anyway. A model that wins Reapercon maybe won't even place at Gencon and vice-versa. The same model would probably be ignored in Europe, the painting styles and judging are way too different overseas not to mention historical painting and car/plane/boat modeling and traditional art.

I have a friend who paints minis eyes with a white dot and a smaller black dot. These dots don't always look the same direction or are different sizes and his paint runs everywhere and looks splotchy and full of brush strokes and rough blends and missing highlights and shadows. But his models are so cool because he has gone in and made them artistic instead of highly skilled. They are fun and inspire creativity in others. I'd buy them but he isn't selling.

Skill levels are only important where money and/or opinion is involved.

Keep slingin' paint but don't lick your brushes. Jus' 'cause they're non-toxic doesn't make 'em healthy.

[Bruunwald]

If the older gnomes were not handled, I don't see why they would become weathered, unless... I hope I don't sound condescending, but is it possible that in your early days you not only did not seal, but did not prime, or did not use a reliable primer? Unhandled minis sitting in a case should not look weathered otherwise. At least not in my experience.

However, some of my early, early attempts lacked primer, and sure enough they chipped and weathered just sitting in storage.

As to sealing old minis, I sometimes go back and do it, if I see they are going to get use soon, or if I decide to sell them. Nowadays, I seal as a matter of course. But I do hit the old ones with it, sometimes. Generally, it does not harm the old paint jobs at all, and there's no reason it should. The most important thing to remember, if you're going to do this, is to make sure you dust them very, very carefully and thoroughly. Old dust, even the dust you can't really see, can scratch the paint as you are handling them, or if you are using a brush-on sealant. It can also leave little scratchy bumps.

[TheBucklandBrewer]

I used to seal those I play with, but since I barely play, I just don't seal anymore.
Those for display I never seal... Probably because I can't get my hands on the Testors Dullcoat...
Only recently I bought some bottles from the Army Painter and Vallejo to try them out. Now that I finally have them, I just don't care about using them (eheh...)

As for the improvement... I think the whole miniature-world has improved last few years. More and more splendid techniques and producs have joined our world to lead to higer quality.
I have exactly the same, a model of not a year ago satisfied me so much back then, but now I see it like... 'hmm, how could I have been so pleased with that?'.
I also think the references have much higher quality then 5 to 10 years ago. Just look back in an old catalog of 10 years ago, and look at a recent one. The difference is amazing. Or check the gold-winning entries in conventional contests of 10 years ago, and look at the recent ones. It's hard to understand models that won gold 10 years ago even got to the second voting-round.
A lot of pro-painted mini's of the 80's/90's would now be no more than tabletop quality...

These days when I want to paint a miniature, I search for the best painted exact model and try to do better. Even if I know I can't, I just try and enjoy learning new things and it really helps improving.
A few months (weeks?) ago I painted a mini and looked on coolminiornot for the best one, and I thought by myself I had done better then the reference. But the highest rated reference was a pic of 2006 or something. The points given these days are much lower, just because the standard has gone up so much.

In the end, it's just a matter of how satisfied you are yourself, but I'm sure we all get a bit in the flow of the eye-candy all around.

Also, once you learn a new technique you'll see on many of your already painted mini's you should have used it there aswell to make it look better, once you've improved, you think different of your own older works... In some way it's disappointing, to feel different about the old paintjobs, but in the end, it always means you're getting better, so the more diappointments, the better! (hmm .. that doesn't make much sense right?)

[MonkeySloth]

I find it funny that people say that when they seal that they loose detail. I have never once had this happen and I useally put down two-three coats on everything I paint--and one of them is a latex based sealer. I really do believe that this is an urban myth.

[Sergeant_Crunch]

I've never lost detail that I can remember when sealing. About the only time I can see that happening is if by accident you grab the spray primer instead of the spray sealer...

Regarding repainting, I'd buy another copy of the model and paint it to your new ability so you can compare and see just how far you've come.

[themudhead]

I painted in some nice freehand scales that glinted in the light on the curved part of a mermaid warrior's tail. The detail was very delicate and values were very similar. Took hours. When I put the sealer on, the layer of sealer smoothed out the differences between values beneath and I lost the scale effect. It just looked like a highlighted, shiny, smooth surface with no scales.

I don't know of any competition painters that seal their work. Look in the gold sections and Sophie winners of past Reapercons. None of those models are sealed.

Sealer can also frost over, especially in humid environments. So your nicely painted mini will look like it got hit with a layer of sugar frosting that won't come off. I have seen this happen.

Seal if you like. Not me.
'Nuff Said.

[Hot Lead]

I don't know of any competition painters that seal their work. Look in the gold sections and Sophie winners of past Reapercons. None of those models are sealed.

Hmmm, guess I should strip the sealer off my recent Best of Show winning entry then... Or this one: http://www.reapermin...test/detail/185

I seal everything I've ever painted, with Testor's Dullcoat. Never had a lick of trouble. In fact, it's a handy trick to smooth out slightly-rough blended areas and remove shine.

mudhead, I'm sorry to hear you lost some detail when you sealed. I can only think the sealer was super thick and/or matte. There is a difference in sealers. I would not use any hobby or hardware store brands, even something like Krylon's line marketed to artists. I use only Dullcoat or brands marketed in art stores for acrylic paintings, like Windsor & Newton or Grumbacher.

Sealer can also frost over, especially in humid environments. So your nicely painted mini will look like it got hit with a layer of sugar frosting that won't come off. I have seen this happen.

Seal if you like. Not me.
'Nuff Said.

Personally I've used Testor's for over 20 years. I prefer it because it's lacquer based - not acrylic, like some sprays. Much less susceptible to any kind of fogging, goes on in a smooth, thin coat, and doesn't build up, even after multiple layers.

Now some competition painters don't seal because they feel it impacts the trueness of their colors. This is pretty prevalent in Europe, but personally I've not seen the sealer affect my colors to any great extent. In fact, I use it to seal areas between blendings. Say you finished an area you're happy with - spray with Dullcoat. Then if you get paint on it accidentally the sealer makes it much easier to pull off the smear quickly with a wet brush. Otherwise the paint bonds to the other paint without the sealer layer inhibiting it a little. I'm not the only one who does this - ask Jen Haley.

[Pole]

Wow thank you Hot Lead! That actually makes my decision for me.

I usually seal with 3 layers of Testors but recently I had heard so many people tell me not to seal competition mini's that I decided not to. After reading your post above, I believe I will continue to seal all of my mini's and not just my gaming pieces. I had never heard of using dullcoat to cover up rougher blends but I will surely have to give this a try!

Thank you!

[72moonglum]

I usually use two or three coats of the Vallejo matte finish/sealant, but I mix it with water. When I've had problems, it's been when I've used too much sealant and not enough water, and the issue at that point was that it was too shiny.

[themudhead]

Culprits were: Testors Dullcoat and Reaper brush on Sealer. Reapers sealer left a shiny coating and smudged everything up. The Testors smoked up and smudged less.

But it seems I'm wrong. I'll shut the up now.

[pae]

I don't know of any competition painters that seal their work. Look in the gold sections and Sophie winners of past Reapercons. None of those models are sealed.

Speaking as one who has 3 gold sophies (and 4 silvers), every single model that I won Sophies with was sealed. Granted, it was back in 2005 and 2006, but I didn't stop sealing my figures until just a few years ago.

Alas, the pictures from 2006 aren't up on the website, but I did put my own pictures of these in the Inspiration Gallery.

[themudhead]

Now, I am so disillusioned. Here I am beating myself up to get those nice blends with just paint and a brush. And I find out its just a matter of spritzing your model with the right goo every now and again....

It's skill in a can. New from Ronco. Get those smooth blends with no work. Buy Goo #1 now! Paint like the masters... Spritz 'n go, no muss, no fuss... your Sophie will thank you.... "Tha-a-ank Yo-u-u-u (in a sultry voice)"

So disillusioned.
:(

[Wren]

I prefer not to seal competition/display figures. I noticed sealer having some effect on painted base rims (granted a subtle one), and it made me a little concerned about how it might affect areas I'd put more effort into painting. My painting flaw is tending towards too subtle, and I think sealer can dull down the contrast just a little, which exacerbates my problem. I also prefer not to seal minis that mix paint effects (like when you've used real metallics or pearl paints on some parts and regular matte paints on others.)

So all the Sophies I've won in the past 3-4 years have been for unsealed models. Though I will note that I've seen things painted by pae, Hot Lead and others who seal before they sealed them, and I can assure you that they've gotten things blended very nicely with just the brush, paint, skill and patience. That said, I have clients who prefer figures sealed, so after I take pictures I spritz 'em with Dullcote, and I haven't had any complaints. Unless you have a bad batch or spraying incident due to humidity or something, it's a pretty subtle difference.

If you are finding sealer dulls your effects, another way to approach it is that if you know you're going to seal, bump up the contrast/effect a little.