57 replies to this topic

[Castlebuilder]

VIG gets its own paint & take now?

This will be our third year in there.

That's great! Worst comes to worst, I'm sure the VIG area would let you do a table in there for the game. All my club are VIG members and would love to play.

Of course, as good Canadians, we would have to ply you with beer for all your troubles, eh? :)

Shucks, if there is beer involved I will bring just about any game you want!

[MiniCannuck]

VIG gets its own paint & take now?

This will be our third year in there.

That's great! Worst comes to worst, I'm sure the VIG area would let you do a table in there for the game. All my club are VIG members and would love to play.

Of course, as good Canadians, we would have to ply you with beer for all your troubles, eh? :)

Shucks, if there is beer involved I will bring just about any game you want!

Lol. Sounds like a plan. I will start plying you with drinks at ReaperCon.

[BobtheEnforcer]

Wow, am I the only one that thinks this is a huge slap in the face to the entire tabletop gaming industry? Reaper Miniatures chooses a video game convention over the longest running tabletop gaming convention in the USA?

My opinion of this company just went WAY down.

[MonkeySloth]

See you're wrong there.

PAX has always had a tabletop gaming section, though granted much smaller then the video game part of the convention, and I think it's genius of Reaper to go there as Gabe and Tycho talk regularly about RPGs, miniatures and wargaming (Gabe even shows WIPs of figures on Twitter) and a large part of their audience don't tabletop game but are familiar with it because of Penny Arcade. These people, who've never painted a miniature, go to PAX and see a free paint and take-- and remember all the comics about it--so they try and and BAM new person entered into the hobby. Add Bones to the mix and you've got a cheaper entry into the hobby as well.

I respect Reaper more because they're trying to grow our hobby--which benefits all tabletop gaming and gamers. It's unfortunate that they cannot attend both but they're making the right decision here.

[Reaperbryan]

The fact is, we've been very open about the choice we have made and why we were unable to do both.

PAX has been very supportive of gaming - Penny Arcade regularly links to our website, and Gabe & Tycho mention our figures in their blog quite often. Beyond that, they have an expansive tabletop gaming presence, with massive support from Wizards and Paizo, as well as Warmachine and many others. We attended last year with a small Paint and Take presence, and were swamped with demand. PAX includes a chance for us to meet and show our product to tens of thousands of new faces that don't see us every year.

We still support GenCon. Fifteen years of Reaper-at-GenCon has been wonderful for us - although I would like to point out that is NOT the first year we have been unable to attend GenCon. We are still sponsors of the MHE events, including many of the painting classes and the MHE Paint and Take. We are working very closely with them to be sure that they are not harmed by our lack of retail presence directly - and I expect that other companies will pick up the fact that we will not have a booth presence and somebody will carry our figures.

Were we able to do both, we would. In the future, I certainly hope that the shows line up in such a way as to allow both shows to be an option.

I'm sorry you got slapped in the face, and I'm sorry that you feel that somehow we're "less respectable" because we're trying to grow the hobby to new frontiers AND give support to loyal fans. We must do what we feel is best, and in this case, it means that we must make sacrifices to support two wonderful shows, giving neither our full attention, but doing our best.

[BobtheEnforcer]

Sorry guys you can spin it all you like. Pax is for video games. They have a mini component that is a tiny fraction of what is present at Gen Con, but they are not equivalent in any meaningful way. Moreover, at Gen Con you have a built in player base who are already interested. At PAX there are "new faces", but they will only be passively interested in your product. It's a bad marketing decision all the way around.

Looking at the GC forums and elsewhere online, there are a lot of dissapointed people. So, you may be chasing $$$$ catering to the video game crowd, but you are just pissing off the industry and the people who have supported your company for many years.

I'm not the only person who thinks this is highly insulting to your fans.

[MonkeySloth]

Yes they're not going to your convention of choice this year but that doesn't mean you should take it so personally as there are way more important things in life.

Hell this is my first year going to GenCon, and I never go to con's generally because of the cost, and I was quite disappointed to hear they weren't going to be there but that's life.

[All-Terrain Monkey]

I think you're missing it, BobtheEnforcer; it's not a chasing the $$$ thing, it's growing the hobby. Have you noted that the painting competition at ReaperCon is any miniature, any manufacturer? And what while Sophies are still given out for the best Reaper minis, the Best of Shows are anything goes?

Read through these boards, and talk to people who've hung around Reaper at the various conventions they've gone to, and you'll quickly find out that Reaper isn't a "chase the $$$" company. Heck, look at the Bones line; branching out to plastic miniatures while not charging metal prices.

Taking a break from a Con to go to a different one sucks for those who like going to the big booths and seeing tons of miniatures in person, I know. It doesn't mean Reaper's flipping the middle finger to its fans, waving its butt at GenCon, and saying that they're through with it and never coming back though. Could it be that maybe you're reading way too much into what's simply a decision that's better for growing the hobby as a whole?

[Reaperbryan]

I'm sorry you feel this way. I have tried to be clear about how we continue to support GenCon, and wish to expand our support to include more shows than we used to. I'm sorry that you perceive honesty as "spin", and a genuine interest in reaching new customers while supporting existing fans as "a slap in the face".

There is little I could say to change your mind, and I'm not getting the vibe from you that you're interested in constructive dialogue - you have made up your mind to be personally offended because we chose a different option than the one you would have preferred. I'm sorry that you feel that our decision is meant to directly reflect our opinion of you as a person, Let me state that I do not intend for it to be. Our fans are fairly vocal in their support of us, and they may come on a little strong. Guys, Gals, Play Nice.

That being said, I reiterate my position that we hope to be able to do both shows in the future, that this was a matter of timing and the logistics involved in transporting 6,600 miniatures and 2,400 bottles of paint to Indianapolis, transport them to Denton, Replace everything that sold, and transport it to Seattle in the time given. I reiterate that this is not the first GenCon we have missed, and no slight was intended then either, sometimes, the stars don't line up.

I'm sorry that our plans are not convenient for you, or insult you in some way. I am sorry that our support of the wonderful work the MHE crew do is not enough for you. I hope that you do not let it ruin your GenCon, and your overall gaming and hobby experiences.

[ladystorm]

<MOD>

several personal attack posts have been removed.

play nice.

</MOD>

[Reaperbryan]

I don't think he's a troll. I think he's used to less civil fora where rude = right. He very likely joined specifically to express his displeasure at our decision, without full possession of the facts.

I reiterate my earlier directive, play nice. Ladystorm will mod bat.

[Hibou]

I think Reaper (as well as the hobby in general) need to expand their audience beyond those who attend cons like Gencon. Most gamers who play any type of RPG, card game, or non traditional board game are at least passingly aware of Reaper or other companies like them. The PAX conventions attract tons of people who have never set foot into anything resembling a FLGS. Allot of those gamers think of GameStop and Steam are their game stores. This is a huge untapped market of potential customers for Reaper.

While I will miss meeting some of the sculptors and painters Reaper brings to Gencon, their absence will not really affect my purchasing of their product. I will just get my miniatures fix on this website instead of at the con.

[MiniCannuck]

Let's face facts. Reaper is not going to be as big a presence at GenCon as us gamers would like. However, they aren't abandoning us. They simply had to make a choice. I wish them all the best at PAX and hope things go so well that they grow into a position to have multiple display teams. I know that after how well I've been treated at ReaperCon this year, I'd be more than happy to help them in any way I can by volunteering.

We have to get out of the mindset that Reaper owes us. Sure, they need us to buy their minis to exist but they do so much more to support the hobby. The awards given out at last night's Sophie ceremony recognized all the painters regardless of which company's model they chose to paint. They also support paint and take events at a number of stores and conventions.

This is a gaming company that loves the business they are in. If you think it must have been an easy decision for them to miss GenCon, I'm pretty sure that you'd be mistaken. they just don't have the resources at this tim to do both.

Thanks Reaper for everything you've done for me and my friends. We are looking forward to the paint and take at GenCon as any games Tim is willing to play with us.

[GreyHorde]

I certainly don't feel Reaper owes me anything. Quite the opposite, actually. I volunteered to help at Gen Con this year, running errands, restocking, whatever...simply to pay back a little, in some small way. And I was looking forward to seeing some of my Reaper-extended-family and friends. It's like a reunion every year, and this will break several years of tradition, not to mention the odd gap on the merchant hall floor. So, sure, I'm disappointed, but I will get over it because I recognize the reasons and respect the decisions.

One other thing - Reaper does work incredibly hard to keep costs down, and those savings are passed on to us. Show me a company of any size, with multiple product lines and materials, great quality and variety, with better pricing. I think they give more value for our money than any other company out there. My thinking is that if their profit margins were so high that they could afford two crews & product to put in shows so geographically separated, but only 2 weeks apart, then wouldn't we be crabbing about their pricing? Wouldn't we be begging them to drop a convention from their schedule to cut costs and pass those savings on to us?

[flygyrl]

I have been going to GenCon for 10 years and just did the paint and take last August - and now I am totally hooked. I went to ReaperCon this past weekend and now my head is spinning with all the new information. I think it is great if Reaper can expand the hobby and get more people hooked on it as all of us here are. Being new to this board I would hope that we support the love of the hobby and if the hobby grows then we will probably see more cool things come out and product lines expand, not to mention more paint clubs going and maybe more product carried in local stores.

Good luck at PAX and hopefully you will be able to do both next year, but either way I will definitely be back at ReaperCon!