14 replies to this topic

[TheDungeonDelver]

and furthermore, P65 for all.

Would it be at all feasible for Reaper to switch to P65 and slot bases for miniatures? If so, could it have an ameliorating effect on the price of the minis?

I do "OK" buying discount on-line but I'd like to see prices come down at least a little. I know it's economics, so please don't think it's a gripe at Reaper directly.

Oh plus slot bases would provide a "standard" base rather than the variation between, say, an older Sandra Garrity model that might as well be mounted on a quarter versus a new Werner Klocke that barely has a base at all.

Of course considering what oil prices are doing I'm guessing plastic base costs probably won't really help matters all that much...

[Beowulfthehunter]

The slotta issue has been brought up before just do a seach...and be prepared to read for a long while.
As for the P=65, keep in mind they have lead in them and in the mini world to the uninformed that is still a "no-no" material and there are sanctions against it in certain states. Would I love for Reaper to go full p=65 heck yeah, it would save me a few bucks, but I am not sure how much they have to overhaul their molds and process to accomodate it.

[TheDungeonDelver]

The slotta issue has been brought up before just do a seach...and be prepared to read for a long while.
As for the P=65, keep in mind they have lead in them and in the mini world to the uninformed that is still a "no-no" material and there are sanctions against it in certain states. Would I love for Reaper to go full p=65 heck yeah, it would save me a few bucks, but I am not sure how much they have to overhaul their molds and process to accomodate it.

Fair enough!

[Shakandara]

If there is anything that can be learned from the previous discussions on this topic, it's this: neither side is wrong (both sides have valid arguments for wanting the figures with/without integral bases), and the mini producer is never right (in that no matter what they do, they will never please everyone completely). Reaper has done what seems to make the most sense to me: they have assigned slotted bases to their Warlord line - a product line that supports a tabletop wargame where uniform basing matters - and integral bases to their DHL line - a line devoted to filling generic gaming needs, where it doesn't matter if my paladin's base is anything like your mage's base.

A final parting thought; while going to a slotted base does decrease the weight of a miniature, it then requires that some kind of base with a slot be included to place the miniature on. You can use a metal base, but this immediate defeats the savings gained in removing the integral base. So that leaves adding a plastic base. While some companies produce their own plastic bases, it is not something Reaper does in-house. This means that they must purchase them, and even in bulk, what little savings you might have gained by removing the integral base is again lost in the costs of adding the plastic base. Take a look at the price points of the Warlord and DHL lines - you'll find that the Warlord models are not any cheaper, despite using the plastic slotted bases. Reaper has always been excellent about pricing their models fairly, and that you pay for what you get; models aren't arbitrarily more expensive based on popularity, game performance, or any other nonsense. You pay for weight, piece-count (multipart models have more costs associated with them than single-part models of the same weight), etc.

~v

[Reaperbryan]

I'd like to weigh in on the "switch all minis to P-65" suggestion.

We're not afraid of a high-lead metal mixture. We understand ourselves the dangers of working with heavy metals, and believe we can, in time, educate our base well enough to eliminate the lead-o-phobia.

However, we understand that no matter how we educate and explain, some people believe lead is always bad and will always kill you and everybody you have ever met. For that reason alone, despite the lower price point we can achieve with the P-65 mixture, we do not think that P-65 is ever really going to be our "go-to" mix. I should also point out in the interest of fairness, that working with both mixtures is very different. Lead is different from tin, has a higher viscosity and cools at a different rate. It can be very frustrating working with P-65 after working with tin for weeks. We have discovered that a lot of the fine detail and quality we are used to in tin just don't work in lead - the really fine lines, like fingers or something, are frustratingly hard to get to fill in properly, so from a quality standpoint, I would never advocate switching to a "all-P-65-all-the-time" formula.

Trust me, price and quality are at the forefront of our minds, and we are always trying to find ways to reduce the cost without sacrificing quality.

[Heisler]

Yea, well hurry up with that Bryan!

[TheDungeonDelver]

That's fine; I just got a wild hair up my backside about the idea that a nice 20mm or 25mm round plastic base would possibly lower the cost of the minis.

I haven't seen any real detail loss in the P65s I own, TBH (and that's a good thing).

[Reaperbryan]

That's fine; I just got a wild hair up my backside about the idea that a nice 20mm or 25mm round plastic base would possibly lower the cost of the minis.

I haven't seen any real detail loss in the P65s I own, TBH (and that's a good thing).

It's not so much detail loss. It's difficulty in getting certain shapes to cast. There's some figures (3025, for example) that just *refuse* to cast properly, and as such, cannot be released in that metal.

[Reaperbryan]

Yea, well hurry up with that Bryan!

I'll see what I can do. Let's see, you want cheap, fast, easy, and high quality? Is this for here, or to-go?

[Baphomet69]

Both.

Oh, and service with a smile for good measure.

[MiniCannuck]

Can I have fries with that? Or, better yet, can I biggie size my red dragon?

I think we need to put the price/slotta bases into context. I buy from any different companies. Reaper maintains high quality at very competitive prices. Sure, there are some that offer plastics at cheaper prices but they don't have anywhere near the variety that Reaper carries.

As for slotta bases, I don't see these being needed in every blister. The Warlord series needs them to maintain game coherency. However, many of the other figures are based differently based on what game they will be used in or how creative the hobbiest wants to get when presenting them. My preference would be to offer bags of plastic/MDF bases that a person can add to their order if they need them. That way people can get what they want and the rest of us don't absorb the cost of a base which we may not use.

[TaleSpinner]

The way I look at it, the mini hobby is still very cheap, especially if you are in it for the art of painting and/or use for role-playing (war gamming is a different matter). When you consider that for an average miniature you might invest about $6 to $10 in the mini and less than a buck in paint and materials and yet you get between 10 and 30 hours of paintng enjoyment/hobby time (depending on how fast you paint), plus whatever time you spend using the mini for gaming afterwards. Figuring an average painting time of 15 hours a fig and $8 each, that is still only about 55 cents an hour. Compare that to movies, most sporting activity fees, and other hobbies and ours is still one of the cheaper ones out there. The figurine costs could double and that would still hold true (not that I want them to, mind you).

Andy

[Reaperbryan]

My preference would be to offer bags of plastic/MDF bases that a person can add to their order if they need them. That way people can get what they want and the rest of us don't absorb the cost of a base which we may not use.

Like this? 12 for $5
http://www.reapermin...lineStore/74015

[Heisler]

Yea, well hurry up with that Bryan!

I'll see what I can do. Let's see, you want cheap, fast, easy, and high quality? Is this for here, or to-go?

All of the above Bryan, all of the above. And mostly to-go

Edited by Heisler, 08 March 2012 - 11:00 AM.

[Reaperbryan]

Yea, well hurry up with that Bryan!

I'll see what I can do. Let's see, you want cheap, fast, easy, and high quality? Is this for here, or to-go?

All of the above Bryan, all of the above. And mostly to-go

I offer you BONES. Available online NOW. Cheap? Yep. Fast? Faster than NOW?? Easy? Easier than typing a reply! Quality? High! To-go! Just Click!

Did I get it right?