13 replies to this topic

[Arachne]

As the subject states, I have a problem with losing paint on eyebrows, hair, cloak edges, swords, whatever, before the mini is done. Is dull-cote the answer? I use Testor's Dullcote to finish my non-tabletop pieces, do you think I could spray them with that, and later continue to paint over it? I lost some skin off my half orc priest, recently, and it really burned my butt. It took me forever to get just the right highlight.

[Wren]

Are you using primer? I suspect you are, but that's pretty key, so it's worth asking since your post doesn't say.

Also, while some people say it isn't necessary, another thing you can try is washing the metal figure with a toothbrush and dish soap and then letting it dry before you prime it. The moulds the minis are cast with are dusted with powder to help them release from the mould, and while you're filing off mould lines or converting a figure you are getting your skin oils on it. Both could make the primer not adhere completely.

Which brand of paint are you using? I'm told Vallejo model paints are a bit more delicate and subject to rubbing off while painting.

Do you mount your mini on a holder while you paint? This helps you minimize how much you handle the mini. While paint is surface dry in seconds, it can take a few hours or a day or two to really set, so minimizing how much you touch the figure while painting can help a lot with this. You can use a pill bottle, bottle cap, wooden spool, dice box, all kinds of things.

Paint from the inside outwards when possible. Sharp edged items and parts that are on the outer edges like hair get handled more while you're painting, so are more likely to rub off. So if you do those parts last, you can touch up rubbed off primer with a brush on primer and then paint them up trying to touch them as little as possible.

People have used dullcote to set an area of paint and then paint over it it some more, particularly for tricky stuff like freehand designs, so that could be something to try. For me, it didn't work ideally if I didn't have all the areas of the mini at least base coated. (What I mean is, if I dullcoted and there was some bare primer, the paint didn't seem to stick as well when I painted over the primer/dullcote sections.)

[Arachne]

I use Reaper paints, I prime and wash with dish soap and an old toothbrush. I tack the bases down to squares of cardboard, but I'm going to start using a pill bottle so I can turn them better, I suspect that's one issue. Also, because I lost the arm of one of my cherished paladins mid-paint...I'll be using their pill bottles to store body parts >.>

That's a great idea, about painting outwards, I think I learned that, but I get carried away and just go with whatever. I'll try to get more disciplined about it.

I'm thinking the dullcote might be a last ditch effort.

I wonder if I'm overpriming, too. I've been using brush on primers, black or white, and normally I do two coats.

I really appreciate the fast reply, and all the information! I paint a lot, I'm not new to it, just a long time lurker, I've learned most everything I know about painting from these boards, thank you so much.

[cutebutpsycho]

Dullcoat certainly isn't going to hurt your mini. I know SOME people are a little more...I don't know if it's acidic or they just secrete oils....than others thus making even the gentlest of brushings of your miniature strip off paint. This may be your problem. If so, the dullcoat should protect it between painting sessions.

[MonkeySloth]

I have to put on about 5-6 coats of reapers brush on primer to keep it from rubbing off, granted I do water ti down some, but this just happen. I've learned to hold the mini better as I'm panting it but unless i put a thick coat of spray primer on (and I mean thick) then there are always areas where the paint and primer rub off on me.

[Arachne]

Thanks for the insight. Maybe I'm underpriming. I knock primer off, all the time. I'm going to paint this batch of skeletons I've been neglecting trying new stuff, including more primer, dullcote, and the stuff Wren mentioned.

[Ishil]

Odd. I only use one coat of primer, and that's enough. It seems very strange that you would have to use so many layers to make paint stick.

Ishil

[Wren]

Two coats of slightly thinned brush-on primer should do the trick. It is a product that you need to shake a fair bit more than paint to make sure all the ingredients are mixed. If you haven't done that you might find the first bit of the bottle a bit watery and less effective, and the latter bit too thick. I like to store mine on its side, seems to make it easier to mix.

I do think that brush-on primer is not quite as sturdy as spray primer. Probably due to chemical make-up or some such, since it's also more toxic than brush-on. Brush-on is very handy for those of us in humid places, or to touch up little rubbed off places or chips, but I guess slightly reduced strength is the price.

I think all types of primer get a little stronger if you give them a day or three to cure before handling the mini.

Sounds like using a holder will help with a couple of problems. That's a good idea to keep extra parts in a pill bottle holder!

[Hot Lead]

I do think that brush-on primer is not quite as sturdy as spray primer. Probably due to chemical make-up or some such, since it's also more toxic than brush-on. Brush-on is very handy for those of us in humid places, or to touch up little rubbed off places or chips, but I guess slightly reduced strength is the price.

I think all types of primer get a little stronger if you give them a day or three to cure before handling the mini.

Spray-primers usually have some kind of etching agent and are made of stronger paints, like enamel. Most brush-ons have to be acrylic-based, to avoid toxicity. Sort of like thinning down gesso and priming with it. Hence, not quite as sturdy as a spray enamel or lacquer-based primer.

Your idea of letting the primer cure is a good one - one thing I always do after spray primering is dry the mini for a minute with a hot hairdryer. Speeds up the "setting" time and cooks off a lot of the volatiles from the spray itself. Of course it helps to have a garage to do this in - no paint fumes evaporating in the house! But I do find it makes the primer a little harder.

Back to the original issue, though - besides a handle (which is a must IMHO), there's a few other things that can be done to limit paint rubbing off. One thing is to acid-etch the mini. I pop it in a baby-food jar of household vinegar for 1 minute or so. The mini comes out looking slightly dull. I wash it to totally neutralize the acid. The mini gets a micro-etch over the surface that promotes adherence of primer and can cut down on rubbed off paint.

Another idea is to use a glass-medium as brush-on primer. The standard used to be Folk-Art Glass and Tile Medium. It's a medium meant to let crafters paint acrylics on glass. As such it sticks really well and resists rubbing off. The down-side is it's clear, but you can use it as a base primer under the white paint-on, or mix a little white paint with it.

[MamaGeek]

I think the problem is most likely handling. This used to happen to me a lot when I first started painting, too. If you can tack your mini down onto something that you hold while you are working, and NEVER EVER EVER touch the figure with anything but a brush until it is done, that will probably solve your problem.

I usually sticky tack mine onto a pill bottle, or hold the base, if it's big enough. Others use a wine bottle cork, or a block of wood. Whatever you have that you can easily grip will work.

Good luck!

[Arachne]

Hmm. I've never even heard of the vinegar trick. Learn new stuff every day. Lots of new things to try, thanks!

[MonkeySloth]

@ishi and Wren I do mostly glazing for my painting so I never really place down much paint in the first place thus the high amounts of primer needed. I learned this the hard way when I switched from spray primer and using a wet pallet as I had many of moments that Arachne described in his original posts.

[Wren]

Ah, so you're essentially tinting the primer with glazes?

[MonkeySloth]

Depending on what I'm painting yes, but I generally put down thin basecoats because I really don't have the patence to tint the primer like some people do.