10 replies to this topic

[Gus Landt]

Check out this new campaign system done completely by two hard-core Warlord fans - William Barrett & James Ripley

You can download it here from ReaperGames' download page HERE!

[Stubbdog]

I have been reading thru the campaign.

First off, it is really cool, and I will definitely get my group to give it a go.

But, having said that, a few items:

1. The spending chart is a little confusing. Is that how much you get per shard sold? Is that before or after the upkeep cost? So I have to pay the men and then i also have to pay an upkeep for them too?

2. The experience thing is a little confusing too. Is it possible to have soldiers of varying experience level in one group? It would really help to have some examples in there.

3. The data card cost values on some of the models are WAY off. For example, I just threw in Scabbok's Cavern Worm into the magic box, and based on what you have listed there, its true value is 232 points, not 146. So, maybe I can get all of those cards worked out and we can re-publish this thing to the site.

[Stubbdog]

Suggestion.

Reword: Warriors can pick up the counters simply by moving into b2b contact with them.

To something like: Warriors can pick up the counters simply by ending its move in b2b contact with them.

Otherwise it insinuates that if I can line up a few and walk over all of them as I go, then I can pick them all up on one move.

One thing I am noticing is that no mention of burrowers or flyers in any of the scenarios. It may not matter, but didnt know if any special rules apply to them,like for example in the breakthru scenario.

[Naurlas]

I would suggest removing Campaign from the site / at least consulting the autors for correction.

It's PURE rip off from Mordheim(Games W Specialist game if someone dosn't know)
Concept , names , tables - > many of them are just rewritten from orginal Mordheim corebook.

Thus as much as I like it - > this is probably violation of copyright laws.

[Qwyksilver]

They admitted as much when they first started working on it that they were basing a lot of the campaign rules off Mordheim

It was never intended for anything but homebrew play. Although, if it is being posted, might make sense to CYA.

[kristof65]

Game systems are not copyrightable. How they are presented - formatting, tables, etc - are. As long as the wording, formatting and tables aren't directly copied from Mordheim, it shouldn't be a problem.

[Naurlas]

Well I am NOT mordheim player. Seen corebook like 3-4 times. 1 read through. 3 games played.
And after just looking through campaing rules I bealive some rules, injury tables , explorations tables are SAME as the ones form Mordheim.

As much as I am willing to try this campaign with friends(downloaded arelady :P ) . So much I feel publishing Rip Off rules from other game system on Reaper website is just copyright violation.

[jdripley]

There's some direct rip in there. There's alot that is similar but tweaked a little bit. Straight up Mordheim really encourages a player to use a primarily ranged army and play very conservatively, and Warlord is a far more aggressive game, so many of the rules had to change ever so slightly to account for that. For another example, many of the tables are adjusted slightly because you don't need daggers and so forth in Warlord - so the rewards were altered to account for how Warlord models are equipped.

We stripped it of all of GW's IP and added our own. I'm not a copyright law expert, but I gather that Intellectual Property violations are the big no-no. I also trust that Reaper knows its business and if they feel it is not right to have the campaign up on their site they'll remove it. In the meantime, I hope people enjoy it!

@ Stubbdog:

1. When you sell Bloodstone, the value drops as you sell more of it. Kindof like a supply/demand thing. It also takes into account things like food and booze. The Upkeep is more like an equipment repair cost. In game mechanic terms, these rules attempt to forestall the inevitable power creep and give the underdog a fighting chance - the guy who has more gets less for his winnings - although he's winning more, so he'll still have an edge. Just not a ridiculously huge edge.

2. Say you've got a troop with Justicars, Ivy Crown Archers, and Unforgiven in the same troop. All of the Justicars have the same level of experience. Ivy Crown Archers will all be on the same level as themselves, but not necessarily as the Justicars. There are rules in there for purchasing experienced soldiers, because inevitably one of your experienced guys will fall in battle and you'll want to replace him.

3. The Famous Adventurer datacards have a line for Upkeep cost - top box on the right, just under the cost of the model. Compared to typical upkeep costs, which are under 10 talents, these models have very high upkeep costs. The idea behind Famous Adventurers is that they fit into your army and fight alongside very easily - but they're a huge strain on the economic aspect of managing your fighting company.

Hope that clears some things up! We had a blast putting it all together and think you'll enjoy playing it.

[simombo]

I agree that having the rip off-rules on your main site is bad taste and sends a very wrong signal. Especially when it's a GW system.

It's not because I think GW is an evil coorperation that wants to take over the world. I like the Warhammer settings and hell, I even eat at McDonalds once in a while. It's cool if people want to use the Mordheim system for their Warlord Games. No harm in that.

But posting those rules on the official site instead of making your own is just plain uncool. Identity-wise. A lot of people play Warlord and other 'grassroot'-games because they are tired of lousy rules systems and way overpriced miniatures that otherwise dominates the market. That's why we are here: to support the smaller companies that still gives a damn about the rules and the voice of the community.

I trust too that 'Reaper knows it's business', just like the Bible is always right. But this time you made a mistake. Mordheim isn't even that great a system, in fact it's rather fiddly and will certainly cause balance issues for Warlord games. Cudoes to the "hardcore reaper fans" who took the time to copy the contents from your competitors into new tables, but cmon, has there really been no better attempts by fans or designers to make a campaign system for the game?

How about checking out what goes on at other game forums? I know there's some very interesting discussions about card driven campaigns in the Infinity forum, for example.

[jdripley]

Both of us enjoyed playing Mordheim. Both of us enjoyed the way Warlord battles played out better than Mordheim. So we put the two together.

The intention of the Brettinburg project was to do just that, put it together, and we thought it was a decent enough job done that others might enjoy it. So we asked if it could be put up there so that other people who might also want to give it a try could do that.

I guess I feel a little blind-sided by all of the fuss. I wasn't even sure if Reaper would go ahead and post it on their site because of the same reasons that are coming up, but was happy enough when they did because it's cooler to share ideas than to not share them. Didn't really anticipate a negative reaction, but that's life for you right?

By "Reaper knows its business" all I meant was that they've got people who are on the inside of the business and would know if it is illegal to post a fan-altered rule set. I could have also stated it something like this: "I worked on the project because it interested me to put two things I enjoyed together and make them both better in the process, and now the project is done and I've got what I set out to do. I'd like to share it with others, but if Reaper decides it is a risk to themselves, then they're going to do what is best for their company and I'm fine with that." Maybe I ought to have stated it that way in the first place.

I think for my part I'm done with this thread because coming in here bums me out, and as far as the rules being posted or not is out of my hands, so why keep getting bummed out?

[gwangi32]

I want to say thanks to the two folks who set up the Campaign. I don't see rules infringement here at all. I played Mordhiem, which is a campaign setting for Warhammer Skirmish after all. In my look through on Brettinburg I did not see any ideas that would be proprietary. After all in Fantasy Gaming looting a ruined city is as common as fighting orcs or haughty elves. So, I will stick with saying thanks for sharing your work and leave off the criticism.