93 replies to this topic

[Shakandara]

There is nothing wrong with #MA 1 soldiers, especially if they a) have a good MAV, and b) are cheap. Merc Axemen may be close to perfection when it comes to #MA 1 soldiers, especially with that Rush Attack that generally allows you to dictate terms of battle to your opponent. For 16 points, that MAV 5 attack is nice, especially if you can support it with 2 other models (another Axeman and a Merc Spear makes a nice combo, or multiple Axemen for bigger targets) - now you are MAV 6. If you can toss in a merc spellcaster in the troop, Smite will raise that to a MAV 7 (a lovely spell that affects the whole troop, not just an AOE). If you've brought a lot of cheap models, a Totem of Battle becomes worthwhile bringing that MAV up to an 8. Not too shabby. And with Rush Attack limiting the defender to a single swing against each axeman, unless you are taking on models with Cleave or Mighty, the worst you are looking at in return is 1 possible wound, leaving you free to go kill something else next activation.

~v

[Stubbdog]

Nothing is wrong with Kagunk. I love Kagunk. I have used him lots of times. I just dont think he gets as much mileage in the MErcs as he does in the Reven. Not saying he cant be used effectively in Mercs tho.

Same with the MA#1 models. Nothing wring with them. I use them all the time. While on offense and using their abilities like Rush attack where the defense only gets a single swing back (per rush attacker) too, they can be very affective. Problem is when they get into melee that they cant kill quickly themselves. They just dont have the swings to be in a long fight. So, they either work well in a horde or they work well as a few targeting stragglers, but as more than 50% of your list, in my book that is just a red flag. Again, not saying it cant work, just saying that it makes it harder to do.

I will try to see if I can come up with an alternative later tonight when I have some time to think about it. Who knows, for what you are trying to do, this might be the best list. Its all about personal playstyle after all.

Cheers.

[CrispyMerc]

I think it also has a little bit to do with what kind of opponent you ussually play.
These are the guys I play against:
Player 1 (elves)This guy ussually rely on indirect shots, damage magic, the prince and sword/pikemen.
Player 2 (Crusaders/overlords)This guy ussually takes a hardhitting warlord type and march him directly into battle
Player 3 (Darkspawn)Fast & flying dodging attacks until has the odds in his favour

The lists we play are ussually 90% the same as last time. None of us is super experienced, but we are doing our best to digup evil-combos.

This means I have to dodge arrows, kill heavy warlords and catch fast troops. It ussually works out fine, but you always want your cheese to a little bit stronger(becuause you know your opponents are also planning in which direction to take the armsrace)

(I have the following in my reserve stash:Artemis,1 okuran, 1 spear,2 familiars & 1 Argonax)

The elves and darkspawn are really at their worst if the scenario gives them a chance to hang back.
--
The ones I haven't figured out to use yet are the Thugs(I just like the models, and think thugs fit the mercenary theme well) and warriors. They are not super hard and ussually just hang around protecting wizards, add support and attack small guys by chance.

[Stubbdog]

Thugs and warriors can become very effective thru the use of supporting spells. The merc spell of Smite (all) as well as I believe they have access to Divine Bless. Toss in a Battle totem or Armor of courage on the leader and their low mavs jump way high. Just dont expect them to live very long themselves. For the most part they are a "I will kill you as you kill me kind of model, but I am cheaper than you so I have more models left over afterwards.."

[Shakandara]

"I will kill you as you kill me kind of model, but I am cheaper than you so I have more models left over afterwards.."

QFT.

~v

[Warwick]

"I will kill you as you kill me kind of model, but I am cheaper than you so I have more models left over afterwards.."

You know, I do this at times, and the little buggers will up and stand their ground not dying like the weak models they are supposed to be! It's outrageous!

[CrispyMerc]

I just discovered that Olivia can "rocket" Kagunk in the air with a +2 move bonus :) Olivia+familiar=2 gondas=60pts=4 bursts of speed (She can't make a chain like the gondas, but still a total of move&charge of 29" is still good :).. and damage damage reduction is also very cool )

Anyway..one of the reasons for taking kagunk(appart from table bling bling), was that I didn't think the mercs had cool leaders except mingela & Haranubo. I think mercs lack cool solos, indirect archers and flyers, but you just can't get it all :)

You never never know when if you want your rocket-kagunk to leave combat and kill someone in the air instead :)

[Shakandara]

Boris is a bad, bad man, especially if you give him the Armor of Courage/Assassin's Blade combo. 4 attacks with Weaponmaster, Savage, and Assassin is just plain mean.

As for Merc leaders, I really like Artemis. At 35 points, she is a compentent archer. And if/when ranged combat is no longer worthwhile for her, she can "lead from the rear" for her troop, acting as a Reach position support model.

~v

[CrispyMerc]

Something old and something new..does this look better ? A little less range, but more combat oompf

Troop 1
Kagunk
3 x axemen
2 x Spearmen
Thug Musician
Olivia Priestess
Cloak of the Dunewalker(K)
Armour of courage(K)
Familiar(O)
Shadowcloak(O)

Troop 2
kagunk
2 x Xbow
Leisynn Chaos Wizard
Famliar
2 Thugs

Luckstone

Troop 3
Boris
2 x Okuran
2 Warriors
Assainsblade
Armour of courage

(I may switch Boris for a barbarian & Haranobu to spread out my points)

[CrispyMerc]

Just got splattered by Darkspawn yesterday. A daisychain & with a heavy magic battery hit me before I could react (I used the list almost as above). I rolled a couple of ones also made it a sad battle for my part. It was almost impossible to be offensive, when your movement doen't really matter and wizards are swarmed in turn 1. It was even was a dungeongame, so he had no benefit from flyers, so it would probably been worse in an outdoor battle.

The only thing I thought that give me something of a chance, was either tight "roman" formations or storming directly ahead to stop his wizards from brainblasting me. Eitherway I would probably picked one by one, or become target of unhealthy templates.

Any ideas to counter the Beam-army ? To me it seems like you have the unluckiest guy in the world or a complete idiot to lose with a force that dominates movement 100% ... yes yes I am whining.. please help :)

[CrispyMerc]

Hello Wembley! Any has an idea what to do, when a Darkspawn player "teleport"s his badboys in behind your battleline and eats all your spell support turn 1 ? Is the "beam-doctrine" an emmenthaler too strong?

[CrispyMerc]

Hello Wembley! Any has an idea what to do, when a Darkspawn player "teleport"s his badboys in behind your battleline and eats all your spell support turn 1 ? Is the "beam-doctrine" an emmenthaler too strong?

[Stubbdog]

I am not going to say that the Darkspawn Doctrine is over powered. It has been proven to be challenging for sure, but not overpowered.

Having said that, I can say that there are certain play lists and play styles that will definitely have a disadvantage from the start just because of the make up and style of it.

But, even if you are fielding one of those kinds of lists, there are still things you can do to try and minimize it.

If you have a list that you think has the speed or ability to get to the other side of the table and take out the starting models before he can implement his tactic and you also have enough initiative cards and spies to guarantee that you go first, then you line up at the front in hopes of doing just that. But, if you dont, then you line up at the very back of your deployment zone along the edge. And also use any terrain that you can as well to limit attack points.

You pack yourself in a bit. Yes it makes you more susceptible to AOE attacks, but there are not many "demon" casters and if you have a caster at the middle of your pack then they can help counterspell the attack or force the opponent to pick and choose less targets in the AOE.

Etc..

[Shakandara]

Start with less equipment. You have dedicated over 100 points towards equipment in a 1K list. That means a full 10% of your points are committed to small, localized bonuses. Leisynn needs a familiar like a hole in the head - he's got plenty of SP.

The big advantage that the DS are going to have against you in a Daisy Chain is that you have so few targets for them (19 models total), you have little to run interference, and too many points are tied up in a handful of models (5 leaders/elites). Once those models are gone, there is nothing to stop them from rolling you. You either need to be big and bad enough to take their first punch and give back hard in return, or have enough cheap models that they are forced to chew up trash on the offense, leaving you free to punch back with your big guns on your turn.

With that in mind, here's a list that uses some core elements of your list, but adapting it to the above concepts:

Mercs - 1000 points

Troop 1
Boris Mingla w/Armor of Courage, Assassin's Blade
Mika, Samurai Heroine
Leisynn, Wizard of Chaos
Olivia, Priestess of Shadarzaddi
Okuran x 7
Mercenary Spearman x 3

Troop 2
Kagunk
Mercenary Axeman x 5
Mercenary Crossbowman x 2

Troop 3
Hedasaa, Cultist Leader
Darkthrall Cultist x 6

Troop 4
Stone Giant

Luck Stone

This list has 23 soldier models. You have lots of cheap Axemen (at MAV 5) and Cultists (2 MAV 3 attacks with Martyr) to protect your other models with, and they will punch back in doing so. You have 7 Okuran that have 2 MAV 5 attacks with Cleave, so they can deal a major punch when you go offensive, especially if you have either caster in Troop 1 around to cast Smite with. Don't be afraid to be aggressive with Hedessa, either. If she goes down, Boris has Mob Leader and can pull Cultists into his troop, even if most of the Okuran and Spears are still alive.

And honestly, without all the equipment, and trimming down to one Kagunk, I'd ditch the doctrine, eliminate Kagunk, and choose a Merc leader for Troop 2. Kagunk is a melee leader, and not much more. He really doesn't bring anything special to the table in your list that couldn't be replaced by adding, say, a minotaur or two to a troop instead. Then you can use the Scoundrel's Luck doctrine instead.

Then the list ends up being more like this:

Mercs - 1000 points

Troop 1
Boris Mingla w/Armor of Courage, Assassin's Blade
Mika, Samurai Heroine
Leisynn, Wizard of Chaos
Olivia, Priestess of Shadarzaddi
Minotaur x 2
Okuran x 5
Mercenary Spearman x 2

Troop 2
Grundor Hoardtaker
Mercenary Axeman x 4
Mercenary Crossbowman x 2

Troop 3
Hedasaa, Cultist Leader
Darkthrall Cultist x 6

Troop 4
Stone Giant

~v

Edited by Shakandara, 23 March 2011 - 01:54 PM.

[CrispyMerc]

Thanx for your ideas an advice. I can see you play with 250pts more than we do. I find it very hard to compare 3 rerolls(750pts) with an army that can beam right into your back where it pleases. Other doctrines get deflect, fearless which is probably match a 3 reroll bonus more.
I'm not saying it that Darkspawn(the beam-ones) can't be beaten but it takes very,very specialized lists that probably have a ton of drawbacks against most other list, where darkspawn seems very blessed with having the inititive everytime.


I thought the kagunks were funny(and cool looking) with their migthy and frenzy for only 58pts(+ a little more speed), they are probably going to join up with the orcs I ordered soon. The familiars were added to make bladebarriers with focus.
I can see that you have filled in the bigguy slots with minotaurs & a giant, which looks like a good trade to get rerolls, unfortunately I don't have any of those models (but may be on my wishlist in the future)

Another thing I noticed is that there are no warriors or thugs..are they too 2nd rate(pointsink) to be included?

I'll try and test a clean merc-list nexttime, and see if they can suck up the free suckerpunch darkspawn gets (Perhaps 3 rerolls can scare him away :) )