75 replies to this topic

[Stubbdog]

SA Summoned says that unless it is a solo, it completely disregards troop limits and joins the summoner's troop.

[psyberwolfe1]

SA Summoned says that unless it is a solo, it completely disregards troop limits and joins the summoner's troop.

I get that. What I am wondering is if the army was legally built with those three leaders with max troops in each troop am I required to summon that whole troop, or since they are now all being summoned it doesn't matter? So can Ashakia's troop of eight summon 8 models out of Rauthurous' troop that has 12 models? Would this leave 4 models to be summoned next turn, or are those unsummoned models lost because the entire troop wasn't summoned all at once. I am inclined to say that no and that once I have purchased these troops they now come in and join the single troop on the table .

[joshuaslater]

I've got to read up on all the new rules. I'm following this thread as I do have Darkspawn. Summoning is cool by its nature, but if a spellcasting roll is required, I'll stick with my Aberration/Bathalian lineup, and just mindblast away.

[psyberwolfe1]

[quote name='joshuaslater' date='Aug 20 2009, 08:11 AM' post='533970']I've got to read up on all the new rules. I'm following this thread as I do have Darkspawn. Summoning is cool by its nature, but if a spellcasting roll is required, I'll stick with my Aberration/Bathalian lineup, and just mindblast away.[/quote
No spell casting roll required. It is a specialty action.

[joshuaslater]

Ta. I'm horribly slow at taking in all the SA's with the new book. I'm too fired up about all the data cards and shiny pewter.

[psyberwolfe1]

Ta. I'm horribly slow at taking in all the SA's with the new book. I'm too fired up about all the data cards and shiny pewter.

This is why you should focus on one faction build at a time. The build you are looking at is pretty mean, and now you should figure out how to optimize it.

[shakhak]

I get that. What I am wondering is if the army was legally built with those three leaders with max troops in each troop am I required to summon that whole troop, or since they are now all being summoned it doesn't matter?

Here is the rule:
" If the summoned model is not a Solo model, it automatically joins the summoning model’s Troop, ignoring Troop Capacity."


So yes, you can overload a models troop capacity through summoning. You can summon all of your other models that you have waiting off board to be summoned into a single leaders troop.

[vejlin]

but I don't see it exempting you from army construction rules for instance. So they still need to be divided into legal troops at construction time.

[Stubbdog]

Kim, you said the important part last, "at construction time"...

But, once its time for deployment, it is possible to have several different plans evolve depending on the number of leaders that the player wants to start with on the table. It is important to note that if one leader summons another leader using this FA, then the second leader is now basically considered a soldier in the 1st leaders' troop and as such would not add any init cards.

OR, if that second leader actually deploys at the beginning of the game, but never summons anything, then it can indeed run around acting like a solo while all the models originally constructed into their troop is getting summoned into the 1st leader's troop. This gives the bonus of not losing the extra init card.


Add more leaders and get more options to mess with the mind of your opponent.

[vejlin]

So a leader can deploy with as part of an illegal troop? hmmm

[Warwick]

I don't he's saying it can Deploy in an illegal fashion. It can be Summoned to create troops composed of models that could not be legal when the list was created on paper. A Darkspawn troop can have some really weird combos because of how they can be summoned. Scenario builders better consider how fast this army can spread out.

[joshuaslater]

Ta. I'm horribly slow at taking in all the SA's with the new book. I'm too fired up about all the data cards and shiny pewter.

This is why you should focus on one faction build at a time. The build you are looking at is pretty mean, and now you should figure out how to optimize it.

I've been focused on collecting the Darkspawn since around 2004. A little longer is no big thing. I'll be happy to just get a game in again. Thankfully I've shanghaied some CAV players in the meantime.

I will recommend the "Bag of Cthulhu" that's out as good proxies for the Bathalians. I just did a comparison of base size and they're perfect!! I may be testing this force quicker than I thought.

[Warwick]

So I've been doing some calculating on this. Being able to choose how, who, when, and where a model gets into base contact is a big part of winning a game of Warlord. Using this Summoning daisy chain, the Darkspawn can instantly cross the board and base a huge amount of seriously tough models in any configuration they choose. Flying and Burrowing (which I use a lot and have used against me a lot) already allow a small version of this. Imagine doing this with every model in your army and doing it all on a single card flip. That's worrying to me. Maybe I'm missing something?
Summoning also doesn't say if you need LOS to the place you are summoning a model to. So could they be summoned behind enemy models? A demon version of the hammer and anvil move?

[shakhak]

So I've been doing some calculating on this. Being able to choose how, who, when, and where a model gets into base contact is a big part of winning a game of Warlord. Using this Summoning daisy chain, the Darkspawn can instantly cross the board and base a huge amount of seriously tough models in any configuration they choose. Flying and Burrowing (which I use a lot and have used against me a lot) already allow a small version of this. Imagine doing this with every model in your army and doing it all on a single card flip. That's worrying to me. Maybe I'm missing something?
Summoning also doesn't say if you need LOS to the place you are summoning a model to. So could they be summoned behind enemy models? A demon version of the hammer and anvil move?

It sounds incredible, but on the table it just isn't all it's cracked up to be.

When attempting to do it, you end up with a string of 8-12 models that end up doing nothing but summoning. Even with Imps that ends up being at least 120 points, usually closer to 200. The 2" summoning reach is more limiting than you would initially think.
That missing 10% to 20% is huge when you're setting up to engage almost all of your army against almost all of their army. Since you jumped across the board, the opponent has easy access of your models, just as you had of his, except 100% of his army can reach you.

It's a hard balance to describe, but it's clear as glass once you try it out. Now in scenario games, things get a little more interesting.

[Warwick]

Okay, I'll reserve judgment until I see it a few more times. What I saw last night wasn't fun. Darkspawn daisy chain to Elf deployment zone and proceed to kill every single model, losing only one in return. And that wasn't an army designed for the daisy chain. He's working on that now and I loathe to face it.
The Summoning 2" rule, is that 2" of open space between the two models? Or two inches between one forward edge and the next forward edge? I played it last night as 2" of open space between the summoner and the summoned.
And it's not 8-12 models in a daisy chain to reach the other side. It's 3. Demon Imps have MOV 8. I can start one demon imp in my deployment zone, daisy chain twice and have a demon imp with an action pending 5 inches inside the enemy deployment zone, and from there I can drop demons all over my enemy like carpet bombs even if they deployed at the extreme far edge of the table. That's 45 points in a daisy chain that allows you to dictate how, when, and where of combat. Ouch. And those 45 points will join up with their friends on turn two.
But I'll wait to see it in action again before calling foul.