55 replies to this topic

[Qwyksilver]

Welcome back for another year Defenders of the Vale. New evils lurk amongst your treasured woodlands! Hunt swift and silent as you rain fletched death from the sky. Summon the very forces of nature to your cause as you hunt with the beasts and fey.

For historical reference, feel free to visit past Faction discussion threads:
Elves 2007
Ceynuudnra Aelvari 1.2
Ceynuudnra Aelvari

Edited by Qwyksilver, 18 April 2008 - 09:11 PM.

[Naurlas]

Hello there.
I am new Warlord player and I would like some help with me 1,5k warband.
Any comment would be nice. One last thing - don't try to convince me for another Warlord or centaurs usage :)
My rivals - Looopins , Dwarfs and Crusaders.

Troop 1(Troop cost - 482)
Eawod Silverrain (Great Magical Ranged Weapon) 147 + 50 = 197
Caerwyn (Great Magical Ranged Weapon) 97 + 50 = 147
3 x Vale Archer 138

Troop 2(Troop cost - 575)
Larnach Archmage (Great Familiar + 2x Ice Shards , 2x Fear , 3x Arcane Blast) 101 +101 = 202
Dehanis (Great Familiar + cure 2, cure 1 x 4 , hold x 2) 68 + 105 = 173
3 x Vale Archer 138
2 x Vale Swordsman 62

Troop 3(Troop cost - 437)
Arnise ( Great Magical Wep. , Great Magic Armor) 67 + 60 = 127
4 x Death Seeker (magical wep x 4) 208 + 40 = 248
2 x Vale Swordsman 62

Army Upgrade : Luckstone 3
Points : 1497
Models : 19(5 heroes/elites)
Cards : 4(3 Troops + Tact.)
Spies : 2

Thx for comments!

[Qwyksilver]

You have a lot of points tied up into a lot of spells, all in the same troop. Fortunately, Arcane Blast can be cast defensively as well, but even still, I would be very surprised if a game lasted enough turns for you to use all 7 spells on Larnarch. Same issue with Dehanis, even bigger problem though since none of her spells are defensive. She will almost never live long enough to cast all of them. I'd consider moving Dehanis into Eawood's troop and use her with Blesses to make those Archers even more deadly. In Larnarch's troop, shift some of those points around to give you some better melee support for Larnarch. People will be gunning for him like you wouldn't believe.

Just curious as well. Why are you so opposed to Centaur?
Also, is your build based on models you own? Do you have others? Are you willing to proxy?

[merlonc]

to start clerics cannot take greater familiars.

I think you have too much equipment. I would drop a lot of it and get more warriors or combat troops to screen and guard your casters and archers. Also get a book of tactics in the second or third troop for another initiative card.

Crusaders will be able to shrug off much of your shooting.

Lupines will close very very fast and shred your characters and troops.

Dwarves, if they take any shooting, will weaken or kill caerdwyn, larnatch and eawod easily while their combat troops advance.

You shoud get at least one AOE on larnatch.

More combat support or screen. Consider some saproling's.

The only equipment I would go for on caerwyn and eawod is magic armor.

A standard or two will help your shooters disengage if someone reaches them.

[spiritual_exorcist]

1) You're wasting a tonne of points in spells and equipment.

Spells: It isn't worth spending points on more than 3-4 spells on any given caster (plus maybe 1-2 counter spells if you want to take those), why? Because most games will only last 4-5 turns and often in turn 1 you'll be out of range.

Remember that Lanarch has a 30 inch ranged attack with Marksman/1 an excellent RAV of 6, and the ability to re-roll one of his shots if he misses, he is an excellent ranged attacker even if he runs out of spells, so loading him up with any more than 3 offensive spells seems a waste to me. 2 Arcane Blasts + Chain Lightning and a single Counterspell is what I would look at putting on him, try it out ans see how it works, if you don't like it try another combo (Take Scare instead of Fear if you want that type of spell as it has an AOE).

Regarding Dehenis, I think Cure 1 is wasted on her, take a couple of bigger Cure spells (a 2 and a 3), and if something needs to be cured a single point use Healer (no range, but it is handy), there is nothing wrong with two Hold Spells, but remember you've got to get close to use them so you need Dehanis to be in a troop that is going to be up in the fighting, and Lanarchs troop doesn't seem like it is that kind of troop.

Equipment: Wow have you gone really overboard on this!

Familiars are nice, but in general you can buy 1-2 decent spells for the price of a lesser familiar, and far more for the price of a greater. They are useful, but with Lanarchs' CP 9 already, I think you're safe with a Lesser familiar, but if you see the merits of a Greater Familiar it isn't a totally off the wall choice. But remember if you drop the number of spells he is carrying you won't potentially get as much out of a Familiar as you would have.

Dehenis can't take a Greater familiar, she is a cleric, and is restricted to a Lesser Familiar or a Holy Symbol, given her excellent CP I'd say just go for the Lesser familiar.

Now, onto Magical Weapons and Magical Armour, the thing you really have to remember when dealing with this sort of stuff is, 'What else can I buy instead of'. In most cases Magical equipment is not as cost effective as taking additional models.

For the cost of Eawod and Caerwynn's magical ranged weapons you could be fielding an additional 2 Vale archers, that means (using Marksmen) 4 more attacks a turn, and 2 more ranged attack re-rolls. Even just dropping their Ranged weapons to lesser ranged weapons will get you one Vale archer. All that being said, if there are any ranged attack characters in the game that deserve and can make use of a ranged weapon upgrade it is Eawod and Caerwynn. Perhaps a good idea might be give one of them the upgrade, and have one without, and compare how they go during the game. In any matter, you'll probably get most effect out of your upgrade by sticking to Marksman and avoiding critical shot, the more attacks you use it on the more cost effective it will probably end up being. But there will be times when a critical shot will be appealing in the case of an undamaged enemy character or something.

I'm not adverse to Arnise taking GMA at all, her DV isn't great, but do consider that for the price of the upgrades you've given to the troop (I dislike the notion of the whole group having magic weapons) you could field 2 more Deathseekers, that equates to 8 more damage tracks your enenmy will have to deal with, and 6 more Warmaster attacks, to me that is huge, scrape a few more points together and you could upgrade one of your Deathseekers to Irith as well.

2) You aren't taking advantage of your armies Faction ability as much as you should.

By this I mean you should have more archers, and truthfully you should have archers spread over just about the entire army, even if it is just 2-3 ranged attackers per troop. Sure Shot is your primary ability, and while you can't rely on it solely, it is your greatest asset.

3) You are playing into your opponents hands by attempting to beat them at their own game by taking very few 'big nasty models' (at least in the case of Dwarves and Korbolas) rather than playing a style that suites your army. The problem is, your big nasty models aren't even close to a match for the high DV Dwarves of the massive attacks of the Lupines.

You need more models, and you need more troops, Dwarves and Lupines are very costly and you have cheaper models at your disposal so you need to try and use this to your advantage, truthfully at 1500 points you should be fielding 25+ models in my mind even with all your characters. To make all the ranged attacks and Magic you are investing in meaningful you have to keep the enemy from overrunning your back lines, this means protecting them by holding them up with your own melee models. Even if you use poor quality models the enemy has to stop and deal with them, and that gives you time to whittle your opponent down. If you don't outnumber your opponent by a fair margin he'll be able to mow down your front line and attack your Archers and spellcasters quickly.

Make the alterations I've suggested to squeeze a few more points out of your build and add a few more archers and Deathseekers to your build. If I was betting I'd say it still won't be that cost effective, as it stand you've just put so many points into costly characters and if you want the build to be more well rounded you'll have to trim a few to bolster your numbers and include at least one more troop to gain a better initiative advantage.

I'd be looking at something like:

Troop 1
Eawod
Nirodel + Lesser Familiar + Cure 2x2
Vale Archers x2
Saproling Warriors x4

Larnach + Lesser Familiar + Chain + 2xArcane Blast + Counter
Vale Archers x2
Vale Warriors x5

Arnise
Deathseekers x4
Vale Archers x2

Varashia
Vale Archer x1
Warriors x5

=1498/1500 (if you are playing 1501 add a Luckstone)
=5 cards
=30 models

I've included Niriodel instead of Dehanis, but if you still like the Hold spell idea drop Niriodel, take Dehanis, but include her in Arnise's troop instead of Eawod's, you'll have to drop a Vale Warrior or two to field the Hold spells.

[Stubbdog]

Well, I would probably have a little different list based on the actual opponent and this one is probably geared towards the doggies the most but could be tweaked to possibly go against the others too. Using your requirements:

Troop 1:
Eawod (lesser ranged upgrade)
Dehanis (2x bless, 2x hold)
2x vale archers
5x longthorns

Troop 2:
Lanarch (greater familiar, 2x stun, 2x firestorm) - or 2 ice storms instead of firestorms for doggies since the dogs have a high DT and low model count
Caerwynn
2x Vale archers
6x Saproling warriors

Troop 3:
Daereth
Silvermaine
2x vale archers
5x vale swordsmen

luckstone
-----------------------------------------
3 troops, 4 init cards, 28 models, 2 spies
1497 points

Basic idea is to use the stun and hold spells to hold the enemy in place while you archer them. Bless first and then hold. Remember a successful bless spell affects all die rolls including spell casting.

Make sure to try and get the longthorns into the bless radius as they have first strike and it can help alot when softening up incoming models.

silvermaine is not a centaur but allows you to have one fast model to get around anemy lines and get to whatever needs to be gotten to.

I spread out Caerwynn and the vale archers so that each troop can take advantage of the archer work other troops started. Eawod gets a critical hit on his activation, which lowers the DV for Caerwynn to now try her crit shot on her turn, etc...

[spiritual_exorcist]

Gearing Dehanis and Lanarch towards Hold + Stun is a pretty decent idea against any high cost opponent.

[Naurlas]

Thank you guys.
I never tough that i will get that much support !
I will put new roster as soon as i get home from work.

Few answers :
1) I don't like centaurs - for me it's elven army and centaurs should be another.
2)I have almost any amount of any elven model available( I dont have centaurs , mossbread and saporlings - don't include them in my rooster please)
3) I have played against dwarfs in a small play whit lower numbers of models and here are me thoughts :
Logan Battlefury + G mag armor is real problem with his dv for me - almost only Eawod could hit him with crit and g mag r wep. (I dont have Larnach atm - it was Lyssete and her cp is to low) , Ceardwynn is also cooming to me but not in me hand right now.
I won only probably by luck ( Eawod alone was about to be charged by logan and his 3 warriors but lucky for me his awesome Marksman abbility finished off logan with 3 succesfull shots)
Thx again.

[spiritual_exorcist]

Saprolings are 33 points, and in any build that uses them you can easily substitute your choice of Vale Warriors, Long Thorns, or Swordsmen and save a few points.

Logan + GMA = 14 DV, be prepared to deal with DVs of this stature on regular occasion, in truth they look tougher than they are on paper. There are several ways to deal with high DV models. Chuck mass amount of ranged attacks at them, eventually you'll knock them down a track or two (the problem with this is that it only takes a Healer to come along and put them back up). Toss spells at them (Hoping that your CP vs. MD matches up better than RAV or MAV vs. DV), in Logans case he is a Dwarf, and Dwarves have unreal MD. Swarm them with many models and gain support bonus'. A Hero supported by a couple of Melee Grunts and a couple of Reach models can roll over a Warlord under the right circumstances.

The best situation is to use all three tactics, Hit them with a spell, toss a few ranged attacks, and then swarm the model, which is why many players try to take ranged attackers and spellcasters in many troops so that they can combined in the same activation with melee units and overwhelm the enemy.

[Stubbdog]

Naurlas,

You should be more open to proxying instead of just saying you dont have a model so dont include it. It is very difficult to give list suggestions only to have to change them based on someone not wanting to play the models in their faction.

[rgtriplec]

So does anyone ever play with a an all archer army? I was thinking I'd try it. Taking Eowad, Caerwyn, a cleric with a few blesses, archers and a couple fauns. The other troops would be the archer sgt, archers, fauns. I'd give a troop a tactics book.

It would be four or five troops, with 6 cards. First and second turn just marksman as much as possible, about 40-50 shots with 20 rerolls a turn. Turn three sacrifice the fauns, run the elves if needed to position for next turn. Don't engage anything with the fauns, just block routes and bottlenecks to the archers. Turn four run and shoot some and prepare for death as all the screeners are gone and your opponent probably has you pinned in corners.

I'm guessing you could get 40-50 wounds in the first three turns. I would only try this with elves because they have marksman and sure shot.

[Naurlas]

Hi again.
Thanks for your comments again.
As said i have almost any model in elven model to my disposal.
As for now like spiritual_exorcist said. I will utilize elven swordmens insteed of them(saporlings).

Here is me a little better roster(hope so)

I would appriciate comments.

Troop 1 (Troop cost - 494 )
Eawod Silverrain ( Great Magical Ranged Weapon) 147+50 = 197
Caerwynn 97
3 x Vale Archer 138
2 x Vale Swordsman 62


Troop 2(Troop cost - 605 )
Larnach(Familiar , 3 x arcane blast , stun ) 101 +75 = 176
Dehanis (Familiar , Bless x 2 , hold , cure 2 x 2) 153
6 x Vale Archer 276

Troop 3 (Troop cost - 397 )
Arnise(G. Mag. Sword and Armor) 67 + 60 = 127
2 x Vale Longthorn 62
4 x Death Seeker 208

Luckstone 3

Pts : 1499
Cards : 4
Spies : 2
Models : 22

Now I Hope Dehanis got enough Ranged Models to support. Reach Support for Arnise added. Fewer equipment and spells.

And here is 2 version.

Troop 1 (Troop cost - 631)
Eawod Silverrain ( Great Magical Ranged Weapon) 147+50 = 197
Dehanis (Familiar , Bless x 2 , hold , cure 2 x 2) 153
Caerwynn 97
4 x Vale Archer 184


Troop 2(Troop cost - 438 )
Larnach(Familiar , 3 x arcane blast , stun ) 101 +75 = 176 + Book of tact = 196
4 x Vale Swordsman 124
3 x Vale Archer 138

Troop 3 (Troop cost - 405 )
Arnise(G. Mag. Sword and Armor) 67 + 60 = 127
2 x Vale Longthorn 62
2 x Vale Archer 92
4 x Vale Swordsman 124

Luckstone 3

Pts : 1497
Cards : 5
Spies : 2
Models : 24

Which one is better / What to modify again ? / What are your toughts ?
I am curius to know ;)

[Gaming Glen]

I have no desire to use centaurs in my elf army, either. I have three Ral Partha centaur miniatures I could put on cavalry bases, and maybe someday I will, but for now I'll stick to elves. I would like elves riding horses as a cavalry option, though. Wish I could get Volendria to have a "change of heart" and come back to the elves (as in she can be in your elf army without making the army freelance). I suppose I could get the miniature and use the Centaur Archer card for her (not like I'll be using for any real centaurs).

I like Mossbeard and have one listed in one of my few build lists.

[rgtriplec]

Wish I could get Volendria to have a "change of heart" and come back to the elves (as in she can be in your elf army without making the army freelance). I suppose I could get the miniature and use the Centaur Archer card for her (not like I'll be using for any real centaurs).

You can use the 25% merc rule, it is in the 2008 Rage document.

[merlonc]

A few questions.

Has anyone tried massed treemen? 3 or 4? Supported by small archer squads?

What do you use for saprolings? GW plastic dryads would be great but I really only get to play at the asylum and want something for reapercon.

Does anyone use woodland protectors instead of the normal list? What do you think?