9 replies to this topic

[celestialkin]

Hello,

I am new to these forums, but I have been a fan of reaper miniatures for a while now. I have not done as much with them as I would have liked, which is why I am starting this thread.

You see I recently bought one of your new Minotaur prepainted plastic figures at my local gaming store, but at the time I purchased it I did not know it was made out of plastic. When I got the blister home and opened it I was thrilled to see it was plastic, since this opened a whole new world of possibilities.

I used to build a lot of Game Workshop miniatures, and like most players I did a lot of conversions on my models. Besides GW miniatures I have always made things like scenery, vehicles, buildings, and characters for my D&D games. However, as much as I love your beautiful (and I do mean beautiful) models, I have not used them very often. This was mostly due to how hard it is to work with and convert metal models, and how much more expensive metal models usually are. Same goes with other metal models (ex. metal GW models are worth about twice as much as their plastics). Plus needing to use a jeweler's saw for converting is a bit of a pain. I have occasionally used your metal models for characters, usually when I was not able to convert what I wanted from extra 40K/Fantasy parts, but not very often. This is why I was so happy when I realized you had made a 100% plastic model.

I have spent the whole day today toying with this model, and customizing it to my personal tastes. I was able to easily remove it's weapons without the need for a saw (My xacto knife cut it like butter), and replace them with leftover Warhammer Fantasy weapons. I was also able to quickly remove it's base (again without a saw, and without mutilating it's feet) to replace it with a more appropriate D&D scaled base. I then crafted it a whole knew tail, and inserted an earth magnet in it's head so I can place a cowboy hat on it (when I find one). And even though this model was prepainted it still primered just fine. Anyways, the point of this rant is I did all of this in a fraction of the time it would have taken me to do it with a metal figure, and the results will probably be better with much less work.

I am hoping you will make more of these prepaited figures, but I want to let you guys know that I would love to see some unpainted bare models made out of plastic.

I know you guys have been making exclusively metal models for a very long time now, and before D&D Minis came out you guys were the best/only resource for gaming figs, but due to the difficulty of working with your figures and their very high prices they are now usually a very poor and unpopular choice, except for the most hardcore of hobbyists. For example I recently had a conversation with the owner of my city's biggest chain of comic/gaming stores and one of his employees about this, and after I mentioned I was worried about seeing Reaper Miniatures disappear due to D&D Minis they started laughing and joking about how I should not worry because "Those will be here forever", and they were probably right. The same employee (my DM) just told me today that his first task at that store was to organize and sort the Reaper figures, and that at least 95% of those models are still there. He then went on to tell me semijokingly "If you want them buy them, please. Buy them all...". Yet I see the store's D&D Minis chase being emptied and restocked weekly, and all the gamers at the store always use them in their games. It has reached the point where everyone at a game will be surprised when I pull out one of my painted Reaper characters for the first time, and they often spend a few minutes talking about it. Some younger players have even said things like "Cool. You made this yourself? I didn't know you could do that.". Because of all this I believe that making more plastic models and less metal ones might be a good idea, and if you were to make an unpainted plastic collection of figures it would be even better due to the lower price (no need to pay for paint and/or painters, and plastic is cheaper than metal), plus it would appeal to modelers like myself who would enjoying converting them.

One of the things which got me thinking about this was I wanted to make an Avariel model to represent my recent D&D character, since Wizards has not yet made an Avariel D&D figure. I was thinking of buying an Elf Reaper figure and one of your Wings Accessory Set, but I gave up on that idea because I would have to pin voice the wings, it would have been difficult to remove the figure from it's base to later mount it on a transparent flying base, and altering the wings would have been too much work. Then I decided to buy the Minotaur instead, and now I keep on thinking about how it would be if the wings set and the elf figures were all in plastic.

Since my regular gaming store received your new prepainted plastic figures I had noticed that they have been selling pretty well ( I did not know they were plastic, though.). The store even has these Reaper Minis at the front of the store on display. Two of my friends have even bought a model or two, and earlier today when I took a break and went over there to buy the other Minotaur figure they had it was already gone. This made me glad, since it shows your company might still be here for a while. Hope business stays good for you guys.

[ReaperClark]

...unpainted bare models made out of plastic.

I don't see this happening unless there is a HUGE demand for it, and so far there isn't. Sorry.

[Lastman]

For what it's worth: I visit many websites regularly and some GW and Gamers Paradise stores in Chicago in person, so this is unscientific, but most plastic GW models I see are converted but unpainted. Converters are aware of this and joke about getting around to painting after they execute their next conversion idea. In person, an informal poll of a room full of kids revealed a strong demand for a conversion demo, and lackluster demand for a painting demo. (Perhaps male pre-teens and teens see building models as cool and manly, and painting as time consuming and girly).

I think Rackham has seen this as the future and hope their plastics are designed to compete with GW sprue armies rather than the D&D prepaints. With all the ill-will GW has garnered, whoever comes out with cheaper sprue armies will enjoy a lot of business purely out of spite. (Detailed Tamiya tanks are $20 but GW cartoon tanks are $50, $10 per terminator... sorry reflex).

Back on point: I think there is huge demand for convertible, unpainted, plastic sprue armies. Kids (teens to 40+) would love to build more than one faction but nobody likes feeling ripped off. GW has addressed this with 1.) their huge troop and vehicle boxed sets (which are steep but bring the cost per model down) and 2.) their new rules, which critics say removes the individuality of the legions, but makes non-legion specific boxed sets more sensible.

[celestialkin]

For what it's worth: I visit many websites regularly and some GW and Gamers Paradise stores in Chicago in person, so this is unscientific, but most plastic GW models I see are converted but unpainted. Converters are aware of this and joke about getting around to painting after they execute their next conversion idea. In person, an informal poll of a room full of kids revealed a strong demand for a conversion demo, and lackluster demand for a painting demo. (Perhaps male pre-teens and teens see building models as cool and manly, and painting as time consuming and girly).

I think Rackham has seen this as the future and hope their plastics are designed to compete with GW sprue armies rather than the D&D prepaints. With all the ill-will GW has garnered, whoever comes out with cheaper sprue armies will enjoy a lot of business purely out of spite. (Detailed Tamiya tanks are $20 but GW cartoon tanks are $50, $10 per terminator... sorry reflex).

Back on point: I think there is huge demand for convertible, unpainted, plastic sprue armies. Kids (teens to 40+) would love to build more than one faction but nobody likes feeling ripped off. GW has addressed this with 1.) their huge troop and vehicle boxed sets (which are steep but bring the cost per model down) and 2.) their new rules, which critics say removes the individuality of the legions, but makes non-legion specific boxed sets more sensible.

I completely agree with most of what you've said. I quit GW stuff about a year ago for some of those reasons, and a few others. This was one of the reasons I was so thrilled to play around with my plastic Minotaur. I pulled out all my old 40K/Fantasy bits and tools, and went all out on this thing.

As for why converters never paint their minis, I believe it's because most people are either good at the painting side of the hobby, or are good at the conversion side of the hobby. In my case I was starting to get pretty good at converting and I really enjoyed, but I hated ruining a model I spent days or weeks on with a terrible paint job, so I usually left them unpainted after they were done. I met a few other gamers like this. I also met quite a few gamers who could paint breathtaking miniatures, yet they barely did anything with their models besides slapping them together.

...unpainted bare models made out of plastic.

I don't see this happening unless there is a HUGE demand for it, and so far there isn't. Sorry.

I can only hope that demand happens.

[fieldarchy]

I know you guys have been making exclusively metal models for a very long time now, and before D&D Minis came out you guys were the best/only resource for gaming figs, but due to the difficulty of working with your figures and their very high prices they are now usually a very poor and unpopular choice, except for the most hardcore of hobbyists.

High prices? compared to? The GW metals I've seen are more expensive than Reaper, by far. Even their plastics seem to be more expensive.

Just curious is all . . .

[kristof65]

Well, the metals will usually be higher priced than the plastics. However, you'll still find tons more variety in metal than you will plastic. Metal producers like Reaper can afford to do truly limited editions, and variants, and kit-bashing pieces in metal, while you'll never see that from WotC.

The prepainted figs appeal to a wider audience than the metals do. It's not that they're replacing the metals, it's just that people who never used to buy more than one or two minis will now buy dozens - because they're painted, and because they're cheaper. I've seen GMs who would rarely ever use minis switch to using them now that they can buy prepainted ones. Poeple who don't like to paint will switch, while those who do like to paint won't ever truly go away from metal.

But you'll not see the detail in plastics that you do with metal for a long while to come. GW has honed the art of unpainted multi-piece plastics well beyond any other producer at this point, and even their plastics don't measure up to their best metal pieces.

Now, as for unpainted versions of the LE line...I don't think we're going to see a huge demand for those, because technically, the unpainted versions already exist in pewter. In fact, see my post here to see a side by side example of one I painted vs a prepaint. That could change once LE gets some exclusive sculpts.

[Dragon Snack]

I like the idea (I'm fighting with 2 conversion currently), but WizKids already tried unpainted versions of their Mage Knight figures a few years back. Apparently "they didn't sell well" would be a kind assessment...

I have spent the whole day today toying with this model, and customizing it to my personal tastes.

You should post your conversion on the Show Off board (or perhaps the Work In Progress board). I'm sure people would love to see it.

[G_S]

And even though this model was prepainted it still primered just fine. Anyways, the point of this rant is I did all of this in a fraction of the time it would have taken me to do it with a metal figure, and the results will probably be better with much less work.

If it primes up fine, and can be painted over fine... Why not just do That? Why ask for them to create a seperate/duplicate line of the prepainted in an unpainted form when you can just paint over it?
I Loath painting, but i'll repaint parts of a miniature to get variety and differnces into a group of otherwise identical models. And it is far easier to paint over a section of a prepaint that has been customized than paint a whole mini.

[celestialkin]

And even though this model was prepainted it still primered just fine. Anyways, the point of this rant is I did all of this in a fraction of the time it would have taken me to do it with a metal figure, and the results will probably be better with much less work.

If it primes up fine, and can be painted over fine... Why not just do That? Why ask for them to create a seperate/duplicate line of the prepainted in an unpainted form when you can just paint over it?
I Loath painting, but i'll repaint parts of a miniature to get variety and differnces into a group of otherwise identical models. And it is far easier to paint over a section of a prepaint that has been customized than paint a whole mini.

I was actually asking to see some of their unpainted metal lines done in plastic. Plus unpainted ones would still be cheaper than the painted ones, due to them not needing painting and people to paint them.

[G_S]

I was actually asking to see some of their unpainted metal lines done in plastic. Plus unpainted ones would still be cheaper than the painted ones, due to them not needing painting and people to paint them.

That is what they are doing now. All of the minis that have come out in LE so far are copies of metals.

As for Unpainted being cheaper than Painted very likely yes becuase it takes out one step in the production process; the machine that sprays the colors through the template (people don't paint them).

But that will basically nulify one of the ideas behind the line, the RTF idea, it will take the customers who don't like to, don't have the time to, or couldn't care about painting back out of buying their minis.

Since painted plastic are easier to customize, and the paint cost by the machine is most likely very low, the idea of doubling the inventory control on having two versions of a plastic figure one painted one unpainted would most likely be far greater than the cost of the paint applications. Your idea decreases one small part of the overall cost of the operation but basically doubles everything else.